Heated Thrivalry (w/ Kade Matthews)

SPORTS! That’s right, to celebrate the Winter Olympics, Sam is joined by community champion Kade Matthews for a chit chat on all things queer sport, ice hockey oh.. and maybe a little TV show you may have heard of that combines the two. The heated rivalry between these two is palpable, discussing The Traitors, Housewives and the impact of season one of Heated Rivalry to the culture. Kade also talks about addressing the barriers impacting LGBTQIA+ participation in sport in Australia and the globe, PLUS  we learn some fun hockey terms and talk about the creation of Australia's first every queer ice hockey club, Southern Lights. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This podcast was produced on the land of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. It is such a concept of reality television. The content is hideous.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Sorry about this. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Welcome to the pod, everyone. Cade Matthews. Thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

How are you? Yeah, great, great. It's first time on, so I'm very excited. I know.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

And it's look, I was thinking, I'm like, this is gonna be a little bit of a slightly different episode for our listeners. It's a sporty episode. It's gonna be a little bit sporty spice, but um look, that's the world we're in.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Well, you know what, you know, we've got the reality and the drama in sport all across the world. Well, there is, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Actually, hang on. So are you following the Winter Olympics at all? Do you fuck with that? Yeah, bits and pieces. Bits and pieces. Is there any drama this year? Besides like global politics, which we will avoid on this.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

There's a lot of pol political drama. There's you know, a lot of um Lindsay Von and injury-based drama. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Any fashions on the slopes?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Uh don't know of any fashions on the slopes. There's definitely skin tight outfits, and you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

It's pretty gay. The Winter Olympics is significantly more gay than the summer one. No?

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Yeah, well, you know, you've got the uh what they're calling, you know, I I can't remember his name, but the quad god who did the uh backflip on the figure skating.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

I'm gonna have to I know what I'll be searching later this evening. And then also the figure skating. That's just like inherently the campus thing of all time. Very camp. Um you said you're watching the traitors.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

I am. I am emotionally.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Johnny Weir and Tyler Lepinsky famously on that show currently.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

I can't believe that no one has put together or it hasn't been broadcast or produced put together, that they are best friends like behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Oh no, they mentioned it a few times because they keep saying, like, in this game, you can't trust anyone except for my best friend. I'm like, well, that's a terrible way to play this game. No one's going like there's an alliance in the house. True, true, and actually true. But maybe, yeah, maybe they're downplaying it like to everyone else.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Let's be honest, they're only on that show, all the reality stars, to fucking get some more airtime.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

What is it, like a seven-day or ten-day filming cycle? Like it's I wish I could do it. Hang it out.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Me too. I wish that was my life. Fly me to Scotland. Yeah, yeah. You get to just like peruse the buffet, hang out with Alan, maybe cross over with Claudia. I reckon he spends no time with them. Claudia, you know, actually hangs out with the cards.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Alan's like, hi everyone.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

I I really wonder how many times they have to like film when Alan comes in after there's been a murder. Because sometimes when he comes into those outfits, people are like, it's hilarious. I wonder how many times he just walked in and how many times I had to get like cut because everyone's just like, what the hell is he wearing today?

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Release the tapes. You're so right. Yeah, because we what we get is they walk in and everyone goes, Wow, you look amazing. And I'm like, Don't lie to him.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

There were a few chuckles lying. There were a few chuckles last week, and I was like, Is this from the outtake?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Was that the murder top? Yeah, it was. Yeah, my view, regular listeners will know my views on Alan Carr as host. Yeah, eh. Yep. I don't think he's great. Yeah. Um, midsummer's over, finally. Congratulations slash commiserations.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Yeah, it's midsummer is wonderful. It's also extremely busy.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

It is. I did see you from afar on Sunday. Yeah. And I was like, Will I say hi? But you were very busy.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

You're the second person to say that to today. So it's just like you looked busy.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Well, you're one of the guys I know that actually like is you know, you work in the sector, you're doing things, you're not just there to get shit faced like I am. Yeah. So I'm always like, Oh, I'll leave you to do that.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Yeah, a lot of people are like, Are you having fun? And I'm like, look. You're like, yes. No, I usually say, Am I full of queer joy? Yes. Am I having fun? No. This is like our eight of a 10 to 12 hour day that's hot that everyone's, especially with the street party, everyone's.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

That is just debauchery. If you have no idea what we're talking about, there is a a third free public event on the gay calendar in Melbourne slash NAM where we get shit face on the street.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah, and it it's the thing that I really like about it though, is it starts at about 12 for the stallholders and it runs to about six, but much like a Saturday night, at about three o'clock it turns.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Oh, yeah. The witching hour. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

So it's 3 a.m. normally, but 3 p.m. at the street party. The the flow of people interested in learning about the services, turning to the people that are right there ready to party. And it's wonderful, I love that for them. But I that's my time and be like, I've got to get out of here soon. It's turning, it's turning, gotta get home.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

You disappeared, you did the right thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, in other sports news, Super Bowl, yeah, and by sports I mean the halftime show because that's all I want to talk about, slash all everyone wants to talk about. Um, what did you think of uh sexy little bad bunny? Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah, it did so well, it was visually striking.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Um, I wish I could have played some of the grass that you know the memes that are coming out now, like people like it was like Jennifer Lopez was one of the grass people or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

I'm like, I love that. Yeah, I wish I could have just been in the grass. Someone, someone tracked their activity on Strava as one of the grass. It has a little grass little loop around the stadium.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Adorable, and it's makes sense because like otherwise, how the fuck are they gonna bump that in and out in like I don't know, yeah, no time.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Yeah, it's it's amazing. It was wonderful though. It was like I've traveled a lot through South America, yeah, went to my honeymoon in Mexico, I've been to Cuba, been to a lot of things, and just seeing the little nods to Latin American culture, um the real wedding ceremony, we should repeat.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Oh, that was real. I I mean I assumed as much because we live in a world where yeah, yeah, no, it was a real wedding ceremony.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

So um, but yeah, my my my friends from Chile really loved the um the child sleeping over three chairs, which they just said was peak Latino culture.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yes. I have a close friend who's Salvadorian and he was just living for all of the the references. Yeah. Um white American women though, very upset. Uh I'm talking about Jill Zaren of Real Housewives of New York uh fame. Have you have you been following this at all?

SPEAKER_02 6:50

No, I I I follow a lot of my politics, so there is a lot of upset white women. But in the housewives world, I haven't followed.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

So this is the van diagram that I appreciate, which is when things in the real world somehow accidentally make it into Housewives World, which is where I live. Yeah, and we all get very excited about it. But um, no, one of one of the housewives. She's actually she hasn't been on a housewives show in years, and she was just about to be in a reboot, but I don't think that's gonna happen now. But she did a video, she was like, it was terrible, I hated it. Yeah, what there were no white people.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Did she watch Kid Rock Show?

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Excuse me, yeah, of course, she would have been there to lighter up.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Because, like, you know, if if if we can impersonate Kids Rock Show, just just have me talk to us and yeah, we're good.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Oh my god, but of course, that's like spiraled out of control, and she is just like done for now. Even her children who like now run the family business have like done a statement being like, This business does not endorse these views. I'm just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

I love when you have to have a statement that distances yourself from your parents. From your own mother who who has sort of set off this, you know, like income flow, and you're like, our views as a family and as a business.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

I love the delusional, deranged nature of the housewives. Yeah. However, sometimes you're like, in what world did you think you were gonna post that? And everyone would just be like, Oh yeah. Yeah, good, good view, like straight up racist. Yeah, not even not even a little bit racist.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Not even that, it's it's not even like a lot of like Lisa Rena, like in trade as sometimes we just say stuff because we're in housewife mode, yeah, and that stuff is stuff that might trigger people, but not necessarily stuff that is just outright racist and rage mate. Like, there's this line, so I don't know what were they in housewife mode and just kind of went off the deep end, yeah, or was it a bit of uh just an insight into the real person? Like totally.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

I mean, look, with this one, we all knew she was filth anyway, but it's like yeah, nice to have that confirmed now. Yeah, and uh yeah, I think any thoughts of the reboot happening for her anyway. I don't I don't know if they started filming it or what, but like a different network picked it up, and no one's gonna want to touch that now.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Well, it's probably been picked up by Turning Point USA.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Yeah, exactly. There will be the real housework.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

There are channels, yeah, and Truth Social Erica Kirk will be there.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Yeah, you Nicki Minaj can be the host. I think we're nailed a format. The whole new world. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but we're not here to talk about housewives. We're here to talk about sports. Yeah, this is the sports episode. And uh how this came about is Kate and I play uh like social basketball together with a fabulous sports club called Queer Sporting Alliance. I'm um Repping. Repping today in the uniform. We thought we'd look the part for you today. Um so we had our own heated rivalry moment um at the national tournament a few months ago. Yep, which was fun.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, I my team lost every game, but though we played with spirit.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

I think we only won one game. Well, there you go. I know which game that was. But it's very QSA to be like, yeah, did you lose? Great, not about did you have fun? Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

It was it was some of my team's first time they played basketball. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

No, and I knew you were heavily involved in just inclusive sport space, but also um with ice hockey. Yeah, and I was like, oh my god, I have to know how you feel about the earthquake that shook the world. What are you talking about? I'm of course talking about heated rabble. Mighty ducks. Oh my god, I mean, and that. Um, but before we get into that, I would love to know more about yeah, the work you do um with QSA, with Proud to Play, and um and everything else.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Yeah, I'm hats. I am a perpetually busy person. I I love being involved in many things. So my professional job is at a charity called Proud to Play. Yep, and we promote algebra TQIA plus inclusion in sports, so we help people tackle discrimination and advocate for people and and work with the sporting industry and individuals to create these safe spaces for sports. So pretty much we've got you know 70,000 sports clubs in Australia.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

What?

SPEAKER_01 11:43

And I mean, I knew it was a lot, but that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Yeah, and but the thing is when you go to break it down like safe spaces like QSA and that are running actual programs, it's a extremely small number. So we're trying to change those 70,000, so there's a lot of work to be done.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

There is a lot of work. Um I remember a few years ago I went to get my haircut and my barber wasn't there. Um and so I was like, oh, I guess I'll have go for someone else. Yeah. It was a lovely straight man who wanted to talk to me about AFL.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

And to which I was like, well, I'm not hugely interested in that, but sure, I'll listen to you talk about that, whatever. Uh, but what I did want to talk to him about was that I, you know, play sport in for for a queer sporting club, and then I find that very important. And he was like, oh he was like, oh, but do you really need do we really need those?

SPEAKER_03 12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

And I was like, Yes. Yeah, yes, we do. And he was like, oh. And then he went on this whole rant about how um it's not the AFL's fault that there's no out players, and and this is the first time I've done this in my life. But I got up out of the chair and I was like, I I I will get my hair cut somewhere else. Yeah. So I was like, you are so stupid.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yeah, we we get a lot of um, especially for queer leagues and queer teams like Southern Lights, which I'll jump into shortly, but we get a lot of feedback um about why don't they just play with everyone else? Why can't they play them? The thing is, like yes, some things like USA's Q League are very queer focused and we can have allies in there, but it's mainly mainly community. But things like Southern Lights, we are a club that exists with six teams that play in a mixed gender league. We do play with everyone else. Exactly. Like we're and you know, I think we're about we did a survey the other week, and we're about 65-70% queer and about 30% allies or or straight allies. So like we do play with everyone. There are allies on our team, they're welcome to join. We play against other people, we play against other genders, we play against like it's like different divisions, different levels, different is like how more integrated D1 in our club. Like our club just exists as a platform.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Exactly. But when you're dealing with someone who's like grown up with the privilege of playing sport as a kid, like that guy, he just couldn't even fathom all of the barriers that I faced that our community faced to participating in sport. Yeah. So he had no one had ever explained that to him before. And so he's like, Why he was just like, why he just thought it was this strange thing, like, I guess they're just all into musical theatre. It's like, no, bitch.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Well, this is this is also when I break it down. Like, we get this this argument often, especially with AFL, that there's there's all these players, like some of us like to apply to you know, if there's 10% queer people in our community, there should be 10% in the AFL and so on. But really, what happens is you might have your 10% as kids, and then as they come out, they drop out, there's bullying, they drop out a bit more, they get a bit body issues, body, stuff like that, drop out a bit more. So by the time you get to the pointy end, maybe you're talking like 1%, like in reality. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

So there's players that exist, but except for rugby, in which I assume everyone is gay.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

In my fantasy.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Shout out Melbourne Chargers.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Not just that. I'm talking every time I'm watching that, I'm like, are you sure? Are you sure? Grabbing a lot of buttons in that game. But um, yeah, but I'd love to know, like, so how to play, like, it's this huge mission that you've got and an incredibly like incredible work that you're doing. Um, how how do you aim to reduce those barriers to participation?

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Yeah, so we do it in a whole heap of ways. We do a lot of work with with sporting organizations to national sporting bodies, state sporting bodies, professional sporting bodies to to provide education to everyone from players up to like executives. Um, but that that's sort of my more at the grassroots. We've got a framework called Rainbow Ready Clubs where we go in there and we provide education. We've got a play-based.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Is that like a tick, like a certification they gave? Yeah, if anyone's heard of Rainbow Tick, it's kind of like the sports clubs.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Cool, cool. So we have that and we we come in and we do it the education. We've got a play-based learning, so it's kind of like this equity game where everyone's got an identity. Love this, and they you like might be a trans woman, or I might be a gay man, and then someone else might be the old boys' club, and we have it on phones, and everyone gets an identity, and everyone kind of like throws it around, asks some questions, and a whole heap of people will step out of sport and it goes in three rounds, and then more will step out. But people can't ask questions of everyone involved. Okay, so it'll be a whole heap of people that you don't know why they left the club, you don't know what reason it would be. And it really puts people in a thing of like, oh, I stepped out early and no one really asked me why, or no one knew why, or no one could address why. While the old boys club stays in the whole time, you know, their dad played for the club, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

So we have a lot of learning like that for our community clubs, and then we assess their environment for language, yeah, do all of the community work, and we build them a plan to basically engage the LGBT community, usually through health organizations and and local orgs.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

That's great. So they actually get some thinking about those reasons why people aren't participating from the community. Yeah, because much like Yubaba, yes, I think it's just they're not thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

They've they've never had that expression, they've never had that. Yeah, so um, and and even look, if they walk away from that and they still don't think the queers are for them and you know stuff like that, but maybe, maybe they might have this lens with women or disability, because it's the same stuff that goes on. So maybe they take something out of it. I just hope they take something out of it. I hope it's queer inclusion. But um, you know, hopefully we get that message across.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Totally, and it must be so hard, like particularly in the climate currently where just like the conversation around trans rights, particularly, is just becoming so I don't know, hot button. Yeah. It's just so it's just out there. Yeah. Um all this backwards thinking. Does that kind of stuff slow down your work as well, do you reckon?

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Well, that's part of the reason why we do this new playbase because what I what I think is true, and research seems to support it, which is statistics and research don't really work anymore. If I'm chatting to someone's, you know, not even overt transphobia or scientists. Yeah, yeah. If I'm chatting chatting to someone's like mum who goes, Oh, you know, I support the community, but you know, trans women in stuff.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

But they definitely don't want to have trans women because they've seen Sky News or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Like if I go, well, 50% feel unwelcome and 70% have rec witnessed homophobia, they just go, yeah, but safety and fancy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

So what we or it always gets to like this point of like like every I feel like everyone's got like a line with it where it's like, oh yeah, at some levels, but just like not in the Olympics or whatever. And I'm like, well, but then what the fuck is the point of like like like there's no career path then for those people, so they're never gonna get into it on the ground level. Yeah, and and you fucking stupid, like it really like it baffles me.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Well, it's it's kind of kind of came full circle now with like athletics in in the Olympics are testing cis women for their hormone levels in an effort to basically cast out intersex and trans athletes and gender-diverse athletes who may have variations of their chromosomes.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

So, like it's affecting cis women now, um which is wild, and also, yeah, I hope you're happy because uh yeah, like this is what you wanted, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

But um, yeah, like you know, we try and just go for the story now, we try and go for the feeling, the experience, because that's so the stats aren't cutting it because people are so emotional about these issues, and that and that goes both ways as well. Like that's what the the conservative political spectrum is at the moment, it's your feelings over any evidence. So unfortunately gotta fight fire with fire in a positive way.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

You're doing God's work, baby. All right, I want to talk about ice hockey, um Southern Lights, I believe is Australia's first LGBTQI plus ice hockey club. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Yeah, so we were founded in 2019. Okay, um, came from an idea in 2018. Yeah, I I put out a post on Facebook um at the time, which I've moved away from Facebook now, but back in 2018, it was great. Um, and put out a post there just to I I knew some queer friends in hockey and I'd had this really positive experience in ice hockey and I knew that it was trans people out there and queer people out there that had found this really welcoming environment, but the worlds were still kind of separate, like it was just it because because it's a really close-knit environment, yeah, that it's such a niche that yes, it's really closed, but like you know, once you play, everyone around you is just talking about the sport because they're the people that are into it.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah, yeah. I mean, especially in Australia, like it's kind of giving Jamaican Bobsled team.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

I know I constantly joke to our newbies that if you play a game of ice hockey, you are better than 99.9% of Australians at the sport. I know, that's like honestly the appeal.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

I'm like, I gotta give this a go.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

So when when I started skating, the people that taught me at O'Brien Group Arena in Docklands were um were Tommy and Liam, who were Australian captains and alternate captains. Yeah, and Army had played in Ottawa and stuff like that. Yeah, the captain of the women's team in in Australia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, in one jump, I was like first time skating in ice hockey to best Australia has to offer.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Um, and I don't think you get that in many sports.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Well, I'd like to know a little bit about the rules of ice hockey because all I know about it um is like all that Heated Rivalry taught me about ice hockey was that they do this very interesting uh stretch on the ice. That happens a lot. Okay, so that's real. And then also once I was in Canada and um back to my hair, because this podcast is all about my hair. Uh someone looked at this hairstyle and said, Oh, you have a hockey player haircut.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Yeah, well, that's true. And they're the two things I know about. There's two terms. You've got your salad.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Oh, what's oh, there's different things.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of hack there's a lot of hockey slang terms. Oh. So you've got your salad, which is kind of like your flowy hair that kind of just is everywhere and you put anything. Yeah. But then you also got your flow, which is how your hair hangs out the back of your helmet. So you've got a little bit of resin style. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

You need the curl out of the back. Salad and flow. Salad and flow. Yeah. Incredible the things we're learning today. You've also got your goon, which is the person that I'm familiar with. Love a goon. Off the court.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

The ice. Well, we are talking who did rivalry.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Well, that's the thing. Like, that's the thing. So it's like I feel like it taught me nothing about ice hockey, but it seemed to have taught like a lot of straight people about gay sex. Yeah. And they're all loving it.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah, yeah. I I enjoy the number of uh I like as well as Southern Lights, I play in two other leagues, um, which are just mainstream state leagues and house leagues. And um there's a lot of at least straight presenting women who are really into talking to me about heat of rivalry at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

It's fascinating because I didn't realise when the show came out, I didn't realise the backstory until it exploded, and then there was so much information about it everywhere. So I didn't realise that it was written by a woman and that it was like originally unlike erotic fiction. Yeah. Um, because you learn that's not a genre I'm dabbling in often. But like kind of genius to turn that into a show.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Well, it's it's actually based on two well, not based on, it's inspired by two real players, Sidney Crosby and Alex Avechkin.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Who are like the profile that they have in the show is the profile that they kind of have in real life. They were picked a year apart. Yeah. Avechkin's the all-time goalscorer in the NHL. Okay. Um, apart past Gretzky a year and a half ago. Um but in real life were they fucking? Well, not that we know sadly not.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Okay, so it's like erotic fanfiction.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

And I I I don't think Avechkin is. Avechkin is a one of the problems of ice hockey, Avechkin is a very big Putin ally. Well, yeah, I was gonna say. You know, so if they are, yeah, keeping it on a down low.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did like they took them touching on that in the show as well. Like those scenes where he goes back to Russia and he's just like a different person.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Well, I I think that's really important. And I was writing about this the other week because I'm glad the show presented that because one of the common threads that we even have in Australia talking about AFL players coming out is everyone will be there for you, everyone will support you and like that arguably may be true, may not be true, you know, in Australia, depending on culture and blah blah. But, you know, when we look at uh examples abroad, like coming out as someone who's Russian in an international game, like Russia has an insane history of ice hockey, like they've got in the 80s, they had you know 70s, 80s, they had training camps for kids from four years old where they'd push tires up hills all day and like go for 15 hours a day and sleep. Like it was ingrained into their national culture. And when you've got family and it's uh you know state-sanctioned violence against queer people, yeah, right. Like your your family is not safe, your community's not safe if you do these things if this is found out. So like there is a a level of real violence that stops not just Russian athletes, but other athletes are coming out. It's and it's not just them, it's family, you know, they can't get their their cousins and their family and everyone out of Russia. Yeah, maybe direct family, but you know, but then every time you like let's face it, Russia even internationally has been known to harass people in various ways overseas and stuff like that. So it's not even if you're out of Russia, it's it's a really big risk. So I'm glad they at least touched on that that trait and personality because yeah, that shows the journey. And even more locally, like Joshua Cavallo, who came out a number of years ago, um speak to Josh occasionally. Josh gets a regular death threat still. Josh recently came out and said that they were forced out of their team due to homophobia. So even without the the international angle, like it still exists in Australia in different ways. Yes, yes. It's massively risky for people that have a career that might only go till they're 30.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Yeah. Um I'm interested, so you grew up in Australia, huh? Yep. I'm interested how you found ice hockey.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

Yeah, so I uh I enjoyed, I grew up in Tralgen in the Trade Valley, so co you know, coal mines everywhere, you know, very, very uh, you know, alpine. Yeah, yeah. Um, but you know, it was a big footy town and stuff like that. I have told this story before. I tried playing footy.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Uh under tens, I did a lap around the oval, then came back to the car and complained my legs hurt. Yeah. So, you know, there's hope for everyone out here.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

I did my dad took my brother and I to one Oskick. Yeah. Uh yeah, my dad was a football player. Yeah, yeah. And um we both said, sorry, yeah, not for us. And he was like, Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

He was like, I tried. So I I played badminton in high school. Oh, well, that's I got up to a state level. So, you know, pretty much as far away from ice hockey as you can.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

So you've had the competitive spirit.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Yeah, yeah, that that's that's been there. But um, while you know, I was uh you know, didn't at a time it, I was a queer kid, but you know, I was a definitely a nerdy kid growing up, and I would, you know, kind of high achiever, flunky out of school, skip school a lot. Yeah, and one of my friends' places where we used to go had um on Ostar at the time, yeah, had ice hockey on the room. We used to watch it, you know, there'll be a game on 11am at on a perfect time to go. It was all the gooning.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

It was all the on-court gooning. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

I saw I saw the gooning and it was that that's for me.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Hang on, what is gooning?

SPEAKER_02 28:27

I don't think I asked. So a goon is goonies a goonies slash enforcer is the guy who fights on the team.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Oh, oh, it's a position. Well, it's not an official position. Okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Oh, it's like a a vibe. Yeah, so there there's people that it doesn't happen so much in modern days, but in the 80s and 90s especially, like you'd have a person on your team who, if you had someone else that was being bad on the other team, that their job was to basically get on the ice and beat the shit out of the other guy.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Oh fuck.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Like that was their thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

So it's basically the most violent person on the team, like or the most intimidating person on the team.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

There was guys basically employed to fight on the ice.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Wow, okay, right.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Yeah. Um, there's a great movie called Goon with Sean Williams Scott, which is probably his best acting role that he's ever had in his life.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

It's a real Oh, that's a name I haven't heard in all the time.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

It's actually a brilliant movie. I highly recommend. But um, yeah, that's that sort of role is the enforcer.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yeah. Um, so you got into it from watching it.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Yeah, and then and then I in my own journey, I didn't play sport for a number of years, and then I had a relationship breakup and came to terms with my queer identity at the same time as that and stuff like that. Yeah I was in a really you know big depression at that time. I I always joke that one of my friends came around to my house one time and I had like a six pack of beer and cheese in the fridge.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

It's just like that's this the international sign of depression. Don't don't look in my fridge, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

So I I eventually got to point where I had to do something, and I'm always one to do something a bit different, and I had lessons where you know, because no one really knows how to skate in Australia, they had lessons and I signed up and they lent gear out, so you could just you know use the higher skates and start learning, and it was kind of expected that you buy as you go. Um, yeah, and just learnt how to do it, and just the journey sort of evolved from there.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Cool. Yeah. And then at Southern Lights, um, you were involved in in the creation of that. And um was it something you expected to grow into what it is now? Or what was the what was the goal?

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Yeah, I I think the goal was like at the time, um, and at the time it was a new rink had had opened in Reservoir, Ice HQ, which is where we still play to today. And I saw clubs like like Melbourne Chargers and Spikers and these many clubs around that people were having this sort of community and doing stuff together, and I kind of went, Well, I found this awesome ice hockey community. How can I give my community that? Because I've I got these two things that I care about really deeply, and so we we like I said earlier, like chucked out sort of a Facebook thing, just uh, hey, is anyone kind of interested in this? Yeah, um, and we had about 10 players, and typically on our ice hockey team, you have between 15 and 20, 20 is a huge team, but um, we had like 10, which was doable, but if anyone was away, it was a bit of a struggle. Um, but we went to Midsummer and kind of went, okay, anyone else like here? And we picked up in like another five players, amazing! Some some French Canadians, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Well, that's the thing, there's always like people hanging out, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

And then, you know, it was we got a team together, we started for them. We had we had all the letters of the alphabet in our first team. We had trans players, we had bi players, gay players, players, we had uh, you know, all different variations and stuff like that in our in the acronym, um playing mixed hockey, yeah, and then we just sort of evolved from there and just sort of kept going. We had need for a second team, and then we had new players seeing us at the midsummer and deciding to play. Um and now we're up to six teams, so we've got like a hundred players actively playing every one time.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

And I joked about this when I saw you at the tournament, but had do you think there's been like a spike in interest post-heated rivalry? Yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

So um, yeah, we we had two come and try sessions. Um, we had one that we normally do, we had about 25 new players trying out ice hockey. Nice, and then we had to do another, so we did two nights back to back because we had another 25. So we had about 50 people come try out ice hockey. Oh um, just for the first time. And now a lot of those players are going into the hockey academies because we sort of recommend they go learn to skate first because it's not something you can just do. Yeah, you can't just know. Um, yeah, so next season that we have, we we sort of expect this influx at the sort of lower end of our teams to come in and be there, Rosanovs and Hollanders, and you know Well, I was gonna say, like, these look alike competitions.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

I was like, if half the people that were at that like are rocking up to your doors, like amazing.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

I've lost count of a number of um heater rivalry dance parties at the moment. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 33:31

There's only so look, as much as I love uh that remix of all the things she said, there's only so many times I think I can hear it again before I'm gonna like unalive.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

I've I've heard I've heard it a lot now. Oh yeah. It was even in something else, I think it was the Olympics coverage for NBC Stunning. No, no, it was a Super Bowl ad for the Olympics that used that song. I'm like, like, I like shout out to Harrison who wrote that great remix.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

And I mean the girlies.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Yeah, yeah, and the girlies, but also like coming in at the tail end here. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

That's yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I was shocked to see those look alike comps. Like, fair enough in like North America and stuff, but when there was like one in Sydney, I was like, what the what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Well, the really interesting thing is, like, with this show, but I think even besides my love of ice hockey and so on, is when it came out, like sometimes our queer community lives in a bubble. Well, yeah, and you sometimes get that in sport as well. Like when everyone around you, it feels like this.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

So it was kind of and I'm in like the queer pop culture bubble. Yeah. Which this was, and that's where I assumed this was living only. Yeah. And then, yeah, I don't know. Well, a month or so into it, I was like, hang on, like, yes, great people are watching this, sports people are getting into this, go like amazing.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Yeah, because I was in this queer ice hockey bubble, and like we knew it was coming out in a couple of weeks and stuff like that, and it aired, and we're like, oh, this is I was expecting like a CW show.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Like honestly, same. Yeah, I really and I was honestly kind of hoping for that. Yeah, I love famously trash, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Uh, but then when it was good, I was like, oh this is when I when it like came out and it was and it was yeah, like it was kind of like especially it won't go into too much in the first episode, but like it was very, very sexy. I'm like, look, the representation is fantastic, yeah. And I I like the representation. The representation being last shots, yeah, absolutely, but like don't see this on much else, and great that they're just going for it.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Well, that's like honestly my biggest praise of this show is that so so much like queer themed media. Um and I'm assuming this is to like get it over the line or whatever, they'll like there will be some sex scenes or whatever, but they're they really make you wait for it. Like you've gotta you've gotta sit through like five episodes of them just like looking at each other. Well, they want the and then they fuck, which is not very realistic for anyone in our community. We're not really about that. So like watching the show and like there's full penetration within the first like two minutes, I was like, this is for me.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Yeah, uh and the thing was like it it sh like it wasn't that far from reality for like, uh yeah, you know, let's go. Like Tell Room.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Yeah, you can tell, like there's uh there's eye contact, there's yeah, yeah, there's like a whole language of cruising that I believe they do quite well on this show.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Yeah, and and so it it like when it still had that. I'm like, okay, so now all my queer friends are talking about it, or at least the queer friends that are definitely hockey at the start. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it took me, I reckon, like January, probably mid-January, before I kind of went, oh no, this is actually big. Like, this because it just felt like it's everyone just like it was in my ice hockey bubble, then it was in my queer bubble, and then it started merging out of there, but then it was like, oh no, this is a this is a thing, and I like so I'm fascinated with fandom, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Um, and how like fan cultures you know appear and thrive, yeah. Uh, and when they start to mobilize is my favorite part, and that I didn't realise that had happened until I so doing this podcast, I you know, I put clips out, little bits from the episodes, and I put one up on TikTok a little while ago, um, with me and a guest, and we were just kind of saying, we were laughing at because this was when the show started getting all of the uh this media attention, yeah, but it was like all insanely positive, and some of it was like, I thought a bit of a stretch. Like some of it was like trying to say that the show had like moved all pushed all these boundaries in terms of like body representation, and that was the bit I was like, Yeah, I don't know if I agree with that. I I don't see many baristas like Kip though, no, you know, but like that was that was until we just made a little two-second joke about that, and I had people coming for me in the DMs in the comment section was like, Well, no one agrees with you, and blah blah. And I was like, guys, I was being like, like, of course, of course, this show is important, of course it's uh moving the the needle culturally on you know a really important space, which is queer people and sport, yeah. We're never fucking talking about that. So of course that's awesome. I just thought it was pretty funny when they started also being like, oh, and it's done this and it's done that. And I'm like, guys, calm down.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

I I I have I have sort of you know been on the record, like I I've said that it's yeah, probably one of the most important shows that we've had for a long time. But I do give that a caveat of like get through the first two episodes or three episodes because they are very adult, they are very a lot of a lot of fucking but the the stretch home in the last three episodes is top-notch. But incredible, but it takes like the scale-up, like when I'm telling people to watch it, I'm like, you have to get through those, like the whole thing. It it brings it home, trust me, because the last three episodes are fantastic, yeah, yeah, yeah. But there is a bit of a like when people were hyping up in the first couple of episodes, yeah, I was like, look, I love the representation, I love seeing this, yeah, but also there hasn't been much story yet.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

No, no, I just think as well with with the cast, they're all excruciatingly gorgeous boys, right? Um, and yes, I will be asking you who you choose shortly, so get ready. Um, but I just would have loved it if there was one kind of because like I don't know, I haven't watched that much hockey, but when I have like they're big hairy dudes, yeah, which is kind of my thing. Yeah. So I was looking forward to that. And then when they were all just kind of like hairless and shredded, I was like, yeah. I was like, come on, can't we have one you know, actual like hockey player looking guy?

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Yeah, well, you know, if they had Ovechkin, who the real uh the real player resident is based off. Avechkin is a bearded, greying Russian guy now.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

I wanted some more facial hair, I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

When he won the the Stanley Cup, the NHL's biggest trophy, he'd been trying for like 15 years to win it. Yeah, and he went on like a five-day bender, and for about every day when he woke up, it was like, what's he doing? And he'd slept with the cup, he'd been at the club, he'd been in Vegas holding it up, he'd swum in fountains in Washington, and people were just like following. He did a keg stand on with the cup and drinking out of it. They dropped it off a bus, like they just gone. Like it was just waking up, everyone going, what's he up to? But like hairy Russian guys. Yes, I'm drinking, I've trashed it. I get it's television, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

I get it, and you know we need everyone to be gold dressed. But I did hear that old mate uh Connor story like worked on those cakes for months and well done because apparently that's a thing. Even for money. Hockey boys have big asses, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Hockey butt is real, hockey butt always three genes in around this area is is always holes in jeans.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Amazing. Yeah, oh so they got they got that part. Yeah. Um, so out of the the four lead boys, who are you smashing? Scott Hunter. Same. Yeah, yeah. I I just like I And that was contra when I told people that they were all like, really? I actually reckon Scott Hunter's moment is the best moment in the show. Yeah, that's that's he's kind of got the the best part in it, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Yeah, like obviously that like that that was the high point, and then we kind of went down for crescendo to you know, but like that there was a moment after that show of like um almost because I'm so involved in the sport and the space, there was a bit in my head of being like so good to have it a player come out on a national stage and like such and it was kind of like a little bit of like whiplash of like it wasn't TV shit, it wasn't like it and I knew that that scene was that scene was where I was like, okay, now this is properly an erotic fiction vibe because this is so fantasy, but like that's what I loved about it as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Yeah, it's it's like they were kind of like like this is never gonna happen, but like let's pretend that it does, you know. That that's that's a beautiful escapist thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

And it happens in the biggest moment in the sport that this thing happens, and also with the pre-work where they've he's kind of struggled with being at it, and to just be like, this is the moment, you know, to do this. Like it was um, I'm a big fan of Wolf Parade as well, whose track played over that as well. Um, so I that all came together for me to see.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

That was a great moment. Uh yeah, episode three, which is the Scott and Kip kind of bottle episode, um, was when I really started because the first two I was still a bit skeptical. That was when I like locked into the show, mainly because I thought um Scott was incredibly handsome. Yeah. Um and it yeah, it did start to get um, I don't know, a little bit more silly for me, which I enjoy. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Yeah, it was just so like to be honest, the first two episodes of the story wasn't there.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

No, and it was moving at this pace that I was like, what are we doing here? It's like it's 2011, then it's 2014. Yeah. Um, and there's no and you know, with no prior knowledge of how hockey works, they're just they're at all of these things, the old star game, and this and that. But they do a good job of hooking you in. Yeah. Um enough to keep going. But you're right, it does start to the real meat in the sandwich, I think, is like post-epode three.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

It was really clever though. That episode three to just um change the the narrative all of a sudden turn into a completely different player. I think really you kind of saw this, yes, this is happening over multiple years, yes, this is a going on, and then it was all it was almost jarring just to be like like I know who this person is, but like why is he on my screen for this whole episode? Yeah, you're like, where are we going? But it kind of it kind of shook you out of the pattern of the first two, and then kind of I feel almost reset. So you had a bit of pre-work done here, and then you kind of got reset, and then you kind of afford it.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Had you read any of the books?

SPEAKER_02 44:44

No, I haven't read any of them.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Good, and you're gonna keep it that way for potential spoilers and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Yeah, I think so. I I I know um the the only thing I know about a potential season three, uh, since season two is everyone hates Ottawa. And as a as a Montreal Canadians fan in the NHL uh rival teams, so I'm glad everyone will hate Ottawa.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Okay, cool. So that that's gonna make that's gonna make sense. I don't want to spoil it. No, don't well, I just was interested because well, normally in these shows, particularly one that's about sport, I was like, oh, they're gonna be the token uh gay romance in the show. So then to have like another one thrown in, I was like, fuck yeah. So that was the first bit. I was like, awesome, we're getting multiple gay romances, plus also, you know, there's tension, potential tension later on in the show, where there's like, well, there's four of them now, you know, is someone gonna have eyes for somebody else? So that's I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Yeah, well, especially because I'm just really glad that Rosanov and Holland Hollander weren't the ones to come out first.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Yes, and I'm also glad that would have been like you said before with the with the Russia situation, like how unbelievable would that be?

SPEAKER_02 45:55

But I'm also glad they didn't come out in response to it. Like it w it wasn't like, oh now this has happened, now we're all gonna come out.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

They did the opposite, they went and had a fuckfest in the cottage, yeah, yeah. Which was a probably a good response, yeah. Like good for them. I living living their best life. They did get busted though by Shane's father. Yeah. Um, what did you think of that sort of way to end the season?

SPEAKER_02 46:20

What a wanted batteries batteries rude remote. Um I I love the memes for one. Yeah. When your parents found out, you know, stuff like that. Um it was like it was I I think although the situation was a bit incredible, but I think the situation was real, like you you know, even if they're at the cottage, yeah, someone's gonna turn up at some stage. And if you haven't a fuck press there all weekend, someone in those full glass windows are gonna you know, gonna see something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

Um, but I but I think that I thought it was gonna be media, like that's where I thought they were going with it. Because I don't know, it was like quite exposed. They were like out the back. I was like, ooh, is there gonna be like paps?

SPEAKER_02 47:05

I I loved though, um, throughout the series, they started off that the use of lighting and stuff through the series has always been like that, it's dark in the shadows, in the closet.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Well, I heard that when HBO bought it off Crave, they like darkened it. Okay, which I was like, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

That classic classic HBO Classic America being like, we'll fix it.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

This can these Canadians don't know how to make TV. I'm like, yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

Yeah, leave it alone. I'm just traumatized still from Game of Thrones when you're sitting there.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Turning the brightness up. Yeah. Oh, we've got a fucking projector. I can't watch anything that's like dark like that. I'm like, I can't even watch the traders. I'm like, where are they? Yeah, it's like classic HBO.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Darker? Yeah, they're like, let's make a darker. Yeah, they're all in black. Great, yeah. Um, but yeah, and then to have that sort of you know, the bright lights of hockey, because it's a very bright, you know, with the white heist and everything, and then having it dark and bright and dark and bright, but then when they got to that cottage episode being like everything was open and sunlight, yeah, everything like this, like a breath of fresh air, yeah. Like they really communicated that well, and I think that yeah, having the the dad being the you know, not not that the parents were that bad, but having the dad be the drama in that episode where it's kind of like well, you are open, now you're open to others, so like now you yeah, good thing it was his parents as well, because they were yeah totally chill. Concerned about the the brand ears, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

What a mum. I know what a mummy joke. It was giving the skateboard mum from that Chris Lilly show, which there was like memes of that. I know, you know, yeah he's questionable, but like I do think that was pretty funny.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

Yeah, yeah. It was it was it was realistic. I think it's just yeah, there was nothing in it, like obviously the you know, there's plenty of fantasy elements, but also a lot of players who, you know, like Isaac Humphreys and stuff like that, who have came out in sport kind of go, yeah, a lot of it is kind of like me.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Wow, great.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Anal included. Yeah. Um, so you mentioned Ottawa being shit, but what else are you excited about for uh next season?

SPEAKER_02 49:13

Yeah, I I'm just really for me who's really interested in like the politics of sport, I'm really interested to see like where this goes. Because like what is the next step? Like, you know, they they've already talked about, like I said, Rosanov, I assume given uh the Ottawa thing, goes to Ottawa because that was their whole thing to be closer to each other and stuff like that. But there's a rivalry there, yeah. Um you know, is is there tensions, is there whatever, and and how does how does Rosanov's family, you know, factor into this? Like how how does the relationship evolve? Yeah. I think is the thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

I'm looking forward to seeing how they deal with like the industry evolving or like responding to Scott Hunter, yeah, uh being out, and like yeah, I I'm hoping that they depict that in a way that yeah moves the conversation forward.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

I the comedy option for this is that they just do it as a they're just roommates.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Oh, like there's like a PR, like crisis PR comes in, they're like, they didn't mean it, so walk it back.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

A lot of players in professional hockey do live with other players because they get drafted constantly, especially in their youth. Like that they might do that. Sometimes players will just get drafted before a game and they'll be like, You're in Vegas now. Um, see you later, and then I'll go live with someone, yeah. Right. Um so there is potential for a that they're just roommates storyline.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

That's kind of cute. Oh my god. Uh well, either way, we're definitely getting more of it, and I wouldn't be surprised if the next season is substantially longer as well. Maybe the mum will become a real housewife. Hey. She already kind of is giving that. I reckon, I reckon that's what's gonna happen. Um, you've got some events coming up that we need to talk about as well before we finish.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Yeah, so um, as well as Southern Lights, we we have a uh club in Sydney called Harbor Lights Ice Hockey as well.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Cute. I mean it doesn't have the same ring to it as Southern Lights, which is a fabulous name. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

And then we've got um a Canberra team that's just started called Capital Riot.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Amazing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

So but Harbor Lights run their annual Mardi Gras tournament up on the 28th of February. Yeah, yeah. So where I'm I'm heading up to Sydney. I do my annual drive up to Sydney because hockey bag and hockey gear is big with all the paddings, so I don't even try and fly up with that. Oh god, yeah. Um, so we do our drive up to Sydney, so I'm looking forward to playing in that. That's it's started during World Pride, so fourth year, third year, wow, okay, cool, cool. Um, and catching up with a whole bunch of the Sydney crew and Canberra crew and stuff like that. And then uh in April here in Reservoir in Melbourne, we've got um a tournament that I'm running called Queer Clash, which is a bit of a reimagining on the tournament. So I've tried to make it obviously hockey needs a skill level to be able to play, but I'm taking a lot of the stuff I've learned from QSA and from other sports, and you know, for instance, we're gonna do a draft tournament, so players it's a silent draft, so no one gets picked first or last, you know, in front of the public. But basically to balance the team so everyone gets mixed up, everyone should sort of even out the way that we do the draft, but it's social first, we're not really tracking you know who's winning, who's losing.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

That's very curious.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Because there might be players up the top end in skill and players down the bottom, like it is a huge range, and we're all playing together, gonna make it so you know the top scorer on each team can only score one goal once after the first game. So like they just need to pass it, yeah, if that's the thing. So introducing some rules to sort of spice it up, make it more even and and fun. But like, yeah, we've had a lot of interest in that with Heated Rivalry, and hopefully we can get a lot of fans.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

Can people come along just to watch? Yes, yeah, great. So, where do we get our tickies to that?

SPEAKER_02 53:05

Yeah, so tickets aren't released yet, but I'll be released. We have a Queer Clash Instagram. Awesome. At Queer Clash. Um, most of it's sort of tournament focused, but we're gonna have sponsorship and we we have a draft night on the Friday night, which is cool, where T teams are announced and people get their jerseys and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

Cute.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

And then on a Saturday and Sunday we play, so there'll be a bit of a social mixer where you can you know, I know I know you might meet the Hollander. I've had requests for people, people to find their hockey boyfriend or girlfriend or or bay friend. Yeah, um, but they can come along to that and and meet the teams and mingle and maybe not be single.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Things we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 53:42

The doors you're opening. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

Yeah, well, Cade, thank you so much for joining me. Pleasure to talk housewives and heated rivalry.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

And heated rivalry housewives.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

I know. And I think uh yeah, I've got some gooning homework to do later on, so I'll be um just just doing that.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

There's there's videos and stuff on sites.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Thanks, babe. We'll see you soon. See you later. Bye.