Behind Behind Big Brother (w/ David Geoffrey Hall)

Former Behind Big Brother contributor and fabulous friend David Geoffrey Hall joins Sam on the couch this week to end the year reflecting on 2000s Australian Big Brother. The good, the bad and the turkey slap. The two discuss scandals, fandom, representation and of course Queen Gretel. Join us on a trip down memory lane won't you? This is an episode not to miss for any OG BBAU fans.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This podcast was produced on the land of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. Welcome to Australia, I'm the Aone who is such a concerted reality television.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

The content is hideous. Oh my god. Hello. Hello, good morning. David Jeffrey Hall. Good day. DJ H. It's me. She's here. Yeah. Welcome to the pod.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Thank you. Thanks for having me. There's a return to my um uh well I haven't been on a podcast for a long time. Um, I was trying to add it up. I can't remember exactly when we started and how long it went for, but I was a teenager.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Wow, yeah. Yeah, and I'm not a teenager anymore. Yeah, you were a teenager in Perth.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Yes, I was a teenager in Perth.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Podcasting about Big Brother, yes, Australia. Yeah. And I was a teenager in Melbourne listening to said podcasts. Yeah. And then years later, met under other circumstances after you moved here, and then one day, and actually, do you know what is serious seriously real? Is that I knew I recognised your voice from somewhere. Yeah, right. And I always thought, like, you've got a really nice, like, radio voice. I'm serious. Sorry, this this pod is a lot of me gushing, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

We haven't known each other for a long time, and I did not know this part of the story.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

So and then when I finally I actually can't remember how we found it out. I must have said something about my dirty little secret. Yeah, your dirty little secret came out, and I was like, Uh and I actually remember being shook.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

So I was like, I loved that podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Yeah, we did it for a we did it for a long time, and it was this was like pre we were number one Australian podcast for a while.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Like on the iTunes because this was way before podcasting was what it is now.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

I'm about to say I think Hamish and Andy are the things that bumped us off number one, and they had a they had a commercial radio show at the time. Like I'd love to say the same. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, same.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Just me and them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

It was it was they weren't really a thing. Like this was iTunes Days podcasts. It was not It was not what it is now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Now it's very much like if another person comes into my DMs being like, I'm thinking of starting a podcast, and I'm like, please don't. Yeah. Just come online. Yeah. Don't put just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:23

We it we did it for a long time though. I remember I was reflecting in preparation for this, and there was a time where we had voicemail numbers in every state and territory where people could call and leave us a message, and then we would play them back and like have like use it as discussion topics on the show. Um it was a really That's stunning. And it was it was yeah, lots of people listened to it.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Because how many seasons of the show do you think you covered?

SPEAKER_03 2:47

So I remember watching it as a fan for a series, so 2001. Yep. Um, and then Oh, we because we're about the same age, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Yeah, because you're way too young to be doing a pod. Yeah, yes. I actually found a photo. So my parents just sold their house at the family home. They're like downsizing, which like I thought I was gonna be sentimental about, but I'm kind of not. But the one thing I found when I went over there the other day was a photo of me in my grade six concert, so like the last year of primary school, and I had made a big brother t-shirt where I'd like painted on the like the eyebrows and the eye, like I painted on like the logo, and it said like big bro. It was that's how I found that and I was like, oh my god, of course.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

I wish you still, I did think I was like, Do I have any merchandise or something I can wear at the time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. It was I was too young to be um uh engaging with it in the way that I was, I think. Um but was a big fan, and then I think it was probably the second series 2002 where I kind of joined um the um the the the website, like part of part of moderating and being a part of what was behindbigbrother.com.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

So yeah, I was gonna say we're being very cryptic. Yes, we are talking about behindbigbrother.com, which does still exist. I've just discussed it. It does still exist.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

So I was like, I'll do some re I'll do five seconds of research before you come up so um the Tim who started it, um, an old acquaintance of mine, he still runs part of it. It's very different now. Yeah. Um, but for those who don't know or weren't around at that time, um, it's a it was essentially a fan website. Yes, and we posted news, gossip, reviews, um, and there was a forum part of it, and the forum like bulletin board, um, that is what still exists and has existed kind of from the start, or at least from I think series two. Um, the original website was um, so it's behind bigbrother.com now, it was the original URL was something like bigbrother.fuckfriends.net. And I think in the first series was maybe just about posting, like this is sorry, it was it was a different time. Um uh posting uh like screen captures of um the nudes that were like shown on the on the up late show. Yep, yep, yep, and then it turned into something else. Um but it was extremely popular for really like.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

I reckon a lot of people would have found it through nude and you know, and they would have loaded like this, like eh eh eh eh the JPEGs of you know, Jamie's big old schlong.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Indeed. I think that is yep, that was a high point in uh the visitation to the website. But it's it was really popular. It was kind of we everyone was fans though. I was uh we I I got involved because I was so deeply interested in the so much, so much so deeply engaged in being a fan, I think. Um and it was the show was so unlike anything else on television, and I think actually anything else that uh that exists in that reality TV form, like it was it was so unique and it was a genuine experiment.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

And what I loved about your coverage of it, both the website, but mainly the pod, because that that was more of a like a parasocial experience for me, but the web and the pod, you guys were clearly similar demographic to me, watching it with a little bit of a like you were enjoying the show, but you were being critical about the production, and you were being critical about like casting choices, uh sponsorship thing, and you were you were like having fun uh sort of digging at those things, and I probably jumping here, but I will definitely later be asking you about how you then started to interact with 10 and uh and other parts of production, which was amazing, but like yeah, I was just like, oh, this is exactly how I'm consuming this as a fan, but also like a fan that like yeah, kind of wants it to be as like best as it can be and like a good reflection of like our society, and definitely those first few seasons, they were still figuring it out. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And it's you know, it's a product, and I think I don't think we were the like the target audience for it at all, which is why we were a bit like hang on, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

I think it felt absolutely we were not the target audience. No, I think it was rated G to start with, and then it quickly moved to M. Um, but it was on primetime uh evening slot, and so and and I think a lot of queer people found um found connection to it because it represented um uh different types of people, and so therefore, not even just the queers that were on it, even though that was transformational at the time, but just other weirdos. And they were look they were trying to make casting choices that were interesting, and that meant you got people who weren't just the w whatever the an Australian of that age looked like at the time.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

And so, and pre-social media too, the first few seasons. So it's like those people are people that today would probably just be influencers.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

I j I can't imagine what the casting um is like now because no, everyone has something online, and back then you that that wasn't part of it. It was you couldn't Google someone and find all of their tracks.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Find out yeah, so the show, the edit, the production, everything, they had a lot of control over like how we were perceiving these characters, um, how we felt about them, probably less so than now, because like now, like so. I've just finished watching and recapping the reboot, the third attempt to reboot the show, but the the the first time that 10 has tried to reboot it this year, um which I think they would tell you was was a huge success because I think it rated pretty well. Um I'm still on the fence about it, but I really enjoyed it. But what an experience watching it um firstly going on like Blue Sky and Twitter during the show live and watching other people comment and stuff is a real kind of like fan experience that's fun where you get to like control these people and it's very fun, and then also going on like Reddit and seeing all of these like people reveal stuff about the cast, screenshots of them saying inappropriate things, all of that. Um you know, like we you know, we've had friends that have been on reality TV that have had people do similar, you know, try dig stuff up and try and ruin people's lives and what so it's very like that's the con but none of this happened back then, and it was this like bubble of like I don't know, it was like quite joyous, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Yeah, I I agree. I think that's what that's part of why I think I became so obsessed with it, is because it was a genuine experiment. It they didn't know what they were doing, it had been on in a few other countries. I think maybe it's a uh a Scandinavian format to begin with.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Or probably Dutch, I reckon. Yes, yes, I feel like they all start out there.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

And and maybe it had been on in the UK, but they didn't know what they were doing, and and the internet was a different place, and live streaming was a different time. And it I I think they genuinely underestimated how popular it was going to be, and it just exploded, and then we had nearly 10 years of back-to-back every year seasons that followed a pretty similar format.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yes, I just looked up the first season was 95 episodes, yeah. Right. This one this year was 26, yeah, so they did four weeks, which I think was them dipping the toe in. They didn't want to like invest all this money. It must cost a fortune, it must cost a fucking fortune, but they have built the set now, yeah. Right. Um and I say set and not house because it's in the looks like a set now. It doesn't look like it doesn't feel like a house anymore. Yeah, there's no um ceiling, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Right. Oh, interesting. And it's like, oh yeah, like so. I haven't engaged with the new series, and when you messaged me and said, Hey, do you want to come and talk about it? I was like, nah, I didn't even know it was on. Um, but I can talk about seasons one through ten. Um I I part of the reason I this is jumping forward, but part of the reason I disconnected from it when it returned was that they it turned they they first attempted to kind of turn it into more of that game show American style format.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

The strategy game. Yeah, and it's also Sonia Kruger was involved and she can absolutely get fucked.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Yeah, well let's not forget Kyle and Jackie Oh.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Okay, well we have to do Kyle and Jackie O. Was that one year? Um I think maybe they did two. Two, yeah, and that was still on ten, but they this is very 10. They love to just like fire a host and be like, guess what, everyone?

SPEAKER_03 12:03

I think they would probably credit it at being at being successful though. Like the ratings of that season came back, but I think part of it was because of the season with Rima. Oh maybe, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Was that Terry winning? The like full racist bogan. Yes, I think. And everyone was like, oh yeah, but isn't she just lovable?

SPEAKER_03 12:23

I think it it just felt yuck to me, partly because so I I have a deep love of um of Gretel Colleen, who was the original host. Love you, Mum. She on this podcast, she is the queen. Yes, and and she I think it really lost something when she left. And other people should be, you know, people should give a go. Listen, mate. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

You're all gonna tell me what I've worked on a show for.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

What's her masterclass? But just hosting a live show with the X Factor being people who are come out of a house after three months without any interaction with the outside world. Like it she she every episode was a masterclass of hosting live television.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Like the shit she fucking dealt with on that show. Absolutely. She had live firstly, live television, everything going wrong at all times. She had people staging protests on stage.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

She had you know the Prime Minister came after the show, you know, like and she defended it. And she, I think she I think she genuinely believed in the format and its ability to kind of show show a reflection of of of culture and society. Definitely. Um, and uh I I just I bow down to her.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

And the way she you're right, the way she defended the show, um, like it was hers. I love that, like having a host. It's it's similar to the way Jeff Prost and Survivor are one in the same. Like he is that show, but unfortunately Grandad has kind of fallen off the wagon and used I think he needs to have a little rest. Yeah, that's not a hot take. Um, but Gretel was the show for me.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

Yeah, yes, absolutely. And and she she I think she she had a uh a really important part to play in um the kind of housemates experience because she was their connection to the outside world. Um and that I think is maybe like a a soft part of the skill of doing the show. Um and I watched a a bit of um, well actually a lot of um the UK series that Davina McCall hosts. Or did host at the time.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Davina McCall. And I I gotta say though, I did you watch any of the Emma Willis years? No, no, she was also very good. Now they have AJ Adudu and Will Best. Yeah. Also works, but it's never, never gonna be Davina. I'm coming to get you! Like that was like and out of respect to her, yeah, the new hosts do not say that. Yeah, okay. Like, which I love.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Like that's her IP. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

But the new hosts do do work. Like it's yeah, I gotta say, because I watched uh similarly, Big Brother UK have revived it three years ago now, and so they've just put out the third version of their new one. It's on different network and everything. I gotta say, it's fucking good. Yeah, right, okay. It's like the old days.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

The Brits just know how to cast reality casting though.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

It's 100% in the casting, and then and then minimal intervention, like they will intervene for story when required, but they try not to. It feels very purist in that way. Nice, but the formula is you get trans people, people with disabilities, people of colour that are very activist, and then you get Tories, and you pretty much 50-50, yeah, and they go go. But that is to me, that is the UK.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Like, yeah, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 15:59

And then they have political arguments. I want to see that. This a fucking Australian reboot. Oh my god, it was a bunch of people that were like, oh, I don't I don't want to talk about that. They had like one conversation about like the gender pay gap and everyone freaked out, and then after that it was like back to everyone tippy toeing around everything. And so we just missed opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah, yeah. I think uh if reality TV can't have these kind of sophisticated conversations, then where can it happen?

SPEAKER_02 16:30

And they don't even have to be sophisticated. Like, I'm very I would actually love to watch someone who like has no clue. Try to engage try you know what I mean? Like, did you watch the Courtney Act season of Big Celebrity We Brother UK? I loved that because she's really good at speaking, right? Like, she doesn't always know everything about what she's talking about, and that's fine, but the way she engages with people is very compassionate, and that's why she won because she won over there was they put a right-wing politician in that season, and Courtney just listened to her. She was like, She goes, Can you tell me what your problem is with queer folk, with immigration, with all this? And and she just listened, and that woman dug their own hole. Exactly, there's cameras running, yeah, yeah. Cameras rolling. Courtney knows she's got the audience already, uh, or a good portion of it. This bitch just like dug her own hole. Genius. Like it doesn't even have to be like equal playing fields, but no, the the casting is such a big part of it. Um, I was thinking before about season one and cast members that hooked me in as a child. Yeah, and I've gotta say Andy.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah. Yeah. Andy for me was like the hook because she went in with was it a Charmander toy or something? She had like a Pokemon. She was like, Yeah, she was like, I'm a Dominatrix, which I was like, what's that? And then she loved Pokemon.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Yeah, yeah. And she like that, I think that was probably the first scandal on the show was they had a like a get to know you um uh uh what is it called, task or something. Um and she had like her leather whips or something, or nipple nipple clamps or something, yeah. And um yeah, and and they and she like you know whipped someone and they fucking put it on air. Um and then there was this big kind of thing of like, is that her kink? Therefore, is it sexual or and is it overly sexual or is or were they just were they just engaging in tomfoolery? I don't know. And yeah and it I I I think that was like one of the key moments where the the the like society looked at this show and was like, wait, hold on a minute, what is going what's going on there on prime time every single day of the week for three months at a time? Um what what's happening? Yeah, she she hooked me in.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

The casting of the first, I I recently um started rewatching some of the first series that's why it came back, and even on her entrance to the house, Gretel was like, Oh, you know, and it was so it was so clunky but amazing. Gretel's kind of like, Oh, you know, what have you been up to in preparation for this? And she's like, she's basically like, I've just been having like a fucking bender, and this is like you said it's G-rated show, and Gretel's like, Oh, okay, and she pretty much alludes to having like group sex at her house. And I was like, I love this one.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

The whole thing, and actually, that's something that Gretel was a an absolute master of is that kind of real balance between um like a certain audience picking up what she's putting down and then another audience just kind of flying over over her head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the and that that first season did have um, I can't remember his name, but he's gay. Oh Johnny. Johnny, yep.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

He who gotta say, rewatching fucking hot.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Yeah, babe. Like hot. Um who else was season one? That that was let's get it up. They and they must have been like in their twenties or something. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

And then and we were what 13, 14. Uh yes, exactly. Watching it, being like, hang on, here let's get up the cast of season one.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

That's the the and season one the best eyebrows and the big brother eyes. Okay, so it was Ben. Sarah Marie. So as someone from WA, you know, she was representing. Yeah, she was from regional WA she lived in regional WA because she worked at the strippers in Kalgooli or something. Yeah. Remember she released the Bum Dance? Like song? There was a whole song about it.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

We've got Gordon RP.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Yes, RAP.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Um, Lisa Pete. Okay, I remember Peter being quite cute as well.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

Don't remember Anita, Gemma, she was something, something Gemma, she was the Gemma was a a a raunchy girl. I remember them making lots about the fact that she liked to wear makeup, like that was a storyline that they kept pushing in.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Yeah. Yeah. A vixen.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

I forgot the Ben one. See, in my mind, Sarah Marie won because she won the she won Miss Congenia. She won the popular vote, yeah. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Yeah. But a lot of I mean, this was a time also where I think the pipeline from Big Brother to um commercial radio breakfast hosting was like quite a real thing for a while. But this was before that time.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Uh yeah. Uh uh. Was that this season or something? Oh my god, it's strange. Big brother is watching. Yeah. Is that this season? Oh my god. It might have been two.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Because that was when they were like, guys, make a song. Because this was around the same time. Was Australian Idol around the same time as well? I think it started a couple of years later, yeah. So it was very like the same thing of yeah. Um CD single available in Sanity was like the commercialised way of doing it, which is like so strange.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

There was one series where they released all the music that they used to like cut the episodes together on C D. I tried to find that for to bring along, but could not.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

I want to know what Johnny's doing these days.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

I mean all of their all of their names are there.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

We can we can find out I reckon he's on the HGH train, living in like Woolamaloo.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

I mean and this mine like you you would have had to escape you were so you were beamed into people's lounge rooms in a different way. And back then the show well it ran Monday to Friday there was a weekly show, so half an hour um produced episode of the day prior. Um and then turnaround as well.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Totally that would be a whole new thing, like for networks to be comfortable airing something that had only been edited that day.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

And I remember watching there's an episode that either was after the season or it was on like a maybe 730 on news thing about how they put together the daily show, and they had to get it to the sensor to watch it and then give it its if its rating in the afternoon before it went to air, let alone the live shows. Like we were getting you were getting like seven or eight episodes a week of either live format or daily show format. So these people were this is this that's more than reality shows now. Like you get you get a couple of days in 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

And it was, I think you that taught me this, but the Australian content quota was the reason for that, which I love that we have, yeah, and we still have. I think was it SCOMO tried to get rid of it um when he was prime minister, but it didn't happen.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Well, hasn't it just come back or they're increasing it or something? They're doing something, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Um and then because the hot dogs up late game show was a um that was a real girl, that really was a rough spot. Yeah, that was that was a rough spot. But that was like so obviously content quota stuff.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

It was on at like 3am.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Yeah, and some some nights all the housemates were asleep. Like, and so you just had to play games, and they had an SMS line and what a show it started it started jumping the shark then, I think.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Um see this is what shat me about the reboot this year was in the promos, we were promised it's all going back to original, which I knew they weren't gonna actually achieve, but they really were put and they put every episode of the past seasons on YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Oh yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

And they were like he they were like Higo. Yeah, they did they started doing on their socials all this stuff with all the old season content and really like driving nostalgia, getting us all riled up, and then what they gave us was I would say uh a PG version of what the UK is doing currently. Yeah, it even looked really similar, yeah. Right, but they didn't give us anything like these seasons.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

I don't know if it can be anymore.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

The world the world has changed too much. We have TikTokers now, yeah. Like, and that's the people that want to be on the show, and that's who they put on.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Yeah, so yeah. I the only thing I got from the new show was the um uh like the beautiful straight bogan with feelings. Um Colin. Yeah, so he just came up on my reels constantly. So gorgeous. Yeah, did he win?

SPEAKER_02 25:05

No, he came third. Right. Um audience voting? Yep, okay, of course, yep. Audience voted, it was free to vote, yeah, and you voted on the template website or app, and you could only vote once per round, which I thought was strange because sometimes the rounds of voting were a whole week long, yeah. And so you put your vote in, and then you're watching a whole week of the show and you're like, oh, and you can't take it back, and you're like, oh, I fucking hate that person.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

I'm just remembering a scandal that I think that we broke or at least helped perpetuate scandals where um one of the housemates had so you weren't allowed to wear brands, all the brands were covered up, um, and he and his mates made a shirt that said MLS on it, Massive Loser Squad was their like friendship group. Okay, but his friendship group outside of the show were selling the t-shirts um for money, and then the the I don't know if it was ever proven, but um, they were using that to vote for it was Fitzy. Yes, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

There you go, it was season four. Okay, so this season, I think this was one of my favourite seasons.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Um, I think was this when they introduced Uncut season four? No, it was there from the start. Yeah, yeah. Season one. It was with it from the start. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it was too. I've just been re-watching. Um, but Fitzy, I that was when Uncut got really good.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Yeah, and they moved it later as well, so that it could be R. I think I think it could be R, but it could be.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

I remember the like pink bathroom. Yeah, hot pink bathroom. Oh my god, so Ryan Fitzy, and crazy that of all people from this show, he's been one of the most successful. But hey, he was onto the marketing.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

I don't remember this scandal.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

So they was they were they were they were selling t-shirts, they were making money, and the kind of the argument, or the thing was no one else ha uh is able to do that, and uh is that money being used to um yeah pay for SMS votes? Because back then it was like a 1900 number, it cost 55 cents to vote.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Um you go the money you raised from selling t-shirts to buy phone votes. Oh my god, I'm picturing someone like sitting in a dingy apartment, like with like five Nokia 3315s just like texting away, wow and maybe they did they take the did they say I think they took the shirt off him.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah, I reckon.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Yeah. Make Lisa leave, make Lisa stay? Is that what it stood for? No, no, it was massive loser squads. Yeah, that's why how he and his friends refer to themselves. Yeah. Well, here you go. You can find out more details about this and other classic moments or fan forums like Behind the Umbrella.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

There you go, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Always ahead of the story.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

And then we were too we were too young to be um uh to be breaking some of the stories that we were. But the and the the website did have a key part in the fan experience and some of the in my opinion, um, and also well, sorry, certain fans. Yep, yep. Um, but also led some of the more public discussion about the show because of things that we covered that the official um website or the official shows were not were not covering. Um and that team How did you get the scoop? Um no comment on some of it. So there we we we received tip-offs from people.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Um I guess it was a forum, so there would have been people just in there anonymously.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

It was more it was more that they sent they directly kind of contacted us with stuff. And so some stuff came that way.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Um there must have been people from production, right? Because similar no, because this year there was someone on Reddit this year claiming to be from production. Nothing, unfortunately, there were no scandals really this year. Yeah, but there was tired and cranky production stuff on Reddit just whinging, being like, there's no one working on this show, the budget is nothing, we are all exhausted. We're being asked to make it like Love Island. Yeah, right. They had the EP's from Love Island. Yeah, and I'm like, girl, I could have told you all of that just from watching it. Yeah, um, but yeah, no scandal. I was a bit like no.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

So the big scandals that jump that hold out in my mind, and I do have somewhat uncomfortable feelings about them and my I guess involvement just because that I was so young. Yeah, totally. But again, I think it came from a fan place and from a a um desire, expectation, want for for the show to do better and to to serve its purpose.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

And that's that came across as a listener and a a fan of Behind Big Brother.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

So the big ones that come out that that that I remember are so Chrissy Swan, who is um uh you know yeah, legend. Um she she's she was runner-up, so survived like 90 days or something in there. Um there was a uh basically she overheard while she was undressing um a cameraman make a comment about her weight. That's right! Yeah, and and was this season three? I don't know. Reggie wasn't, let's find out. Yeah, was she made or five or three or five? Let's find out while you uh so the mid-2000s, so she overheard this comment. Fucked, like that is fucked in all respects. Um and uh three. So she went to the diary room um and spoke to her big brother about it. Um and the show just didn't cover it in a way that was very reflective of its well, sorry, they they just didn't address it directly. Um and we um so at the time, I think even now, they um yeah, to back pedal a bit, but they they live streamed it online. Um, and uh the official Big Brother website would have a diary where it, you know, a little roundup of like this is kind of a conversation, this is what happened, but it was very dot points, it was very brief. Yeah, and so we as dedicated fans um had people um all around who essentially just watched the live stream um and recorded it, like screen captured it. Well, yeah, and we did it on the Behind Me Brother Forum, did an alternate diary of everything that was happening. Um and so we just went back over it and were like, what happened at that time? Um and they were a bit like there were there was less delay between it going online and sometimes. Was it moderated at all? It did they do just cut it off event occasionally, but it was very I think someone had to do it.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Because this year I heard that there was always a lawyer watching it at all times, and they would cut away apparently there was one conversation that started on the live stream this year that was about their contracts.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

And I'm like, that's the shit. Like I was like, here we go. Yeah, yeah. And then it cut to the thing they would cut to is the laundry, the a shot of the washer and dryer, yeah, which must be like Samsung or something. So the washer and the dryer became characters of the show from the fans this year. Yeah, and I've got to give it to 10. They did, it was a small thing, but in the finale episode, Mel, the host, um, acknowledged it in her speech. She was like, We've had a great year. She's like, the the love stories in the house between Colin and Holly, Bruce and Coco, and of course the washer and dryer. And I was like, That's that's all we need. Totally. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

That's engaging with the fandom. Yeah, yeah. It it and you have to, like that, that is uh it can't exist in a bubble.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

No, yeah, but yeah, the live stream, I did fuck with it when it was actually good, but this year I was like, absolutely not. Yeah. Am I doing that?

SPEAKER_03 32:45

I was surprised when I I was surprised that it came back. I was like, oh wow, this is um this is this is an attempt to go back to.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

A lovely lawyer got paid to watch the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Anyway, we we kind of wrote a story about what what what had actually happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

So she heard the comment, she was obviously upset by it. Absolutely. And then they couldn't find a way to like make that make sense in the storytelling.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

Yeah, and then I think they did eventually address it either the next day or a couple of days later. Um, but I I do firm you firmly believe that it was us talking about it that made them have to address it because it existed on it it existed online. Um and uh and uh what it yeah, I she actually spoke about it this year. Um uh I yeah, Googled it and she she said that the um the camaraderma was taking photos of her. Whoa. Yeah, fucked. Really fucked.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Look who look what happened to her career.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

So yeah, totally um and the other the other the big one was the turkey slap.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Like well, so I have a story about this as well. But no, no, I want to hear your yours first. So um this was season, I was in university at this point. Was it eight, maybe? I think it was maybe nine.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Yeah, 2008, 2009. So late, you know, mini series in.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Oh yeah, before Tim Dormer. It was uh no. I think I think it was actually it might have been seven.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Yeah, right, okay. Um it so at the time they were yeah, streaming it online. It was very and we had people recapping it and people um uh recording the stream. Yeah, yeah. Um and it was it was very late in the morning, like maybe 4 30 or something. Yeah, and they were like in the bedroom, their night vision in the bedroom, I think uh two guys and a um a woman having conversations.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

There were guys whose names were both John.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Yes, both John, yeah. Um having a conversation, and then one thing leads to another, and one of them like slaps Camilla Camilla's face with his balls, basically.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

2006.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

Um and uh she she says at the time, that's not cool, guys. Yeah, and then the feed cuts. Um and then she's very upset about it, and it's kind of uh mentioned in uh it's it's not mentioned in the daily show that happens the next day. Um, but uh the the two boys are removed from the house the following afternoon, and then it just is a bit weird from the view viewer experience as to why and Big Brother the production comes out and says we're um they've been removed for breaching the rules and we're not talking about it anymore. And we were like, Good good luck with that. Yeah, what actually happened anyway? So I think that I think it was a guy in Canada who recorded the stream. But we went back over it and found the fucking video, and if you look the video up, it has behind bigbrother.com watermark in the corner. Um and we you don't see the turkey slap part happen, or you see it's kind of over there. Um but we just put it online um and said this is actually what happened, and they had to they had to address actually water game like the fact that there was sexual assault, you know. And that's the time when John Howard came out and said this show should be taken off end.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

This bloody show.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Channel 10 should use it as a moment of self-reflection or something and get rid of it. Like that that they wouldn't have it and it and it started a conversation about sexual assault and about these like kind of ladsy um you know thing that happened, um, and how fucked it was. And I think the conversation now would be very different, but it was a conversation at the time that was not happening anywhere else, and I think a lot of people would have probably seen that and have done that to someone and been like, oh uh recalibrate.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

I remember being really impressed by and again so young, but um, for context, so so it was 2006. I was studying media studies at Swinburne University, where John, this John, not at not John Ashley, the other John, was also studying.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

And he he we were doing a fucking unit about television, and he spoke to he gave a lecture at our school about the whole experience, and it was amazing. Yeah, right. Um and I remember being really impressed. He he was great, he was just like, I've learned so much from this. Um, they absolutely did the right thing. Like he neither of them were mad about what happened, how the punishment or whatever you want to call it, the the action that was taken was, um, which is great, but also I think the way that the show platformed Camilla's voice, at first it was a bit like awkward because she was really upset because it was like conflicting for her, her friends in the house had just been removed, so she was upset about that, but she also understood that what happened to her wasn't okay. So that was really I I thought the nuance of that conversation was really impressive to just show it, and I think they tried to bury it, and then you know, thanks to fan sites like yours, they weren't able to. So they had to just all right, we're I guess we're having this conversation publicly. They were not happy with us.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

We of course not we received many that was one scenario, but we received many cease and desist letters in our time. Um, and um the website was never hosted, or there was it was never physically hosted in Australia, and so we kind of could get around being like, well, you know, it's in Switzerland, so it's um hosted by fucking fuck friends in Bermuda.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

They yeah, the the producers didn't like us. They weren't um they weren't uh of course not happy, happy with us.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

Did they reach out ever to like try and involve you in any way?

SPEAKER_03 38:44

Yeah, there was one particular time I remember a series was starting or finishing, and they invited Tim, who was it was his his his brain child, he's the administrator of it. They invited him to come and watch uh like a production of a live show or something, yeah. Maybe the launch or the close, I can't remember. Um, and but declined. Um don't want to be involved in that way. Um uh but they there were a few different executive producers along the way.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Yeah, totally um and kind of anonymous at that time too.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Like part of it was an age thing.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Like I think we had like aliases.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Yes, we had aliases. Um and I like yeah, I was a teenager, like I it yeah, crazy. Uh and then I think we they yeah, the different executive producers, some engage with us slightly more than others, um, but they it was predominantly through the legal people. Yeah, yeah. Well, there was one year where do you remember three phones, like those original videos phones?

SPEAKER_02 39:43

There was a three season that was very much like product placement, yeah. It became a thing. And there was chicken tree. Yes, I loved you guys would always refer to Chicken Trade, which I didn't understand being in Melbourne, but um the first time I visited Perth and saw one, I was like, oh, I get the joke now.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

Um they uh where was I going with that trainer for?

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Oh sorry, three.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Three, oh yes, um they so this was like the beginning of mobile internet um before smartphones really. Um, and if you were a three customer, you got like additional content online or something. Um and the like content. The video, I mean the the website developers just to be totally honest, did a shit job, and it was very easy for us to or someone in the us or the people in the forums um to uh kind of figure out the URLs and we found all the photos of all the housemates before the series. Yes, I remember this. Maybe even two years in a while.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

And of course, you weren't gonna just no, we just published it.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Yeah, so the little at the top of the website where all the faces are like two days, three days before it went up, we put all their faces there. Um and they thought we had hacked the site, and I was like, it's not our fault you kept it publicly available. Like we we just had a poke around.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

It's not hacking if teenagers can do it. Exactly, exactly. And gone are those days where because you know, I was similarly savvy sitting at home doing this shit. Tinkering. The internet was a different thing. It was so easy to tinker.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

Yeah. Fuck. And we had there was a few years also where we had people who would go to the live. So the the the first the housemates going in was recorded the night before just because it's a long show to package up and and turn into something. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

They did that this year as well. Yeah, right, okay. Um, which was a bummer, in my opinion. Yeah, I don't know. I I like the live the launch to be live.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

They well, we had people in the audience who um uh who just uh called called us or called a number and we recorded it. Um there was a few years where we streamed it as well. Um and they would they would shut down the thing and be like, we're not continuing until whoever's on their phone is like we we know that it's happening. Um and I think it's so crazy though, because yeah, like they're making this show for the fans, but then also like annoyed that the fans are like I guess they had to protect their intellectual property and and the sponsorship thing, like it had become so big that it had to be so managed within an inch of its life. And it it at the end of the day was a live show that was far less produced than it is now in terms of storyline, and so everything was an X factor. Like what what some rando person who had been in lockdown for a couple of days before, well, I think even a week maybe in a hotel room is all of a sudden thrown on live TV in front of like thousands of people to their like it is bonkers, it is it is so bonkers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

This season six 2006 season was fucking stacked. That's so many hours mates. So it's like you got Farmer Dave, which was like incredible casting, yeah, yeah. The m the Dave and Michael thing, the kiss that I'd like to know who told you that yeah, and then you've got Turkey Slap, yeah, you've got Jamie and Katie. This was an incredible season.

SPEAKER_03 43:02

Yeah, and what you did six years. 2006. Yeah, yeah, amazing. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

It's there must have been lots of intruders, and oh, and the mum daughter, Crystal and Karen. Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

I was this was probably my peak of interest, I reckon. Didn't is that the year that they swapped them in and out? Or that was with other twins?

SPEAKER_02 43:20

I think that was the year after or before the Logan twins.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

The Logan Twins, that's right. Yes. Is that seven?

SPEAKER_02 43:28

I stopped I tapped out after I tapped out with Gretel.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Yeah, I think I think I I tapped out spiritually. Yeah, I think I I hovered around. Maybe we even did the podcast the first season back. I remember I'd moved to Melbourne and we were recording it in Melbourne, but uh very quickly. It just it did it lost the original format, I think.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Which I think was 2007. Yeah, it wasn't it. Was this Gretel's last season? I'm looking at this and I'm like, yeah, this is not even it had a break.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

It ended, there was a break, and then it came came back.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:03

So maybe and maybe it was then. Maybe two yeah, two. And then it came back with Was Sonya first or was it Carl and Jackie O'Fi?

SPEAKER_02 44:10

I think it was Carl and Jackie O first.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

Yeah, and they did two years, I think. Um, that and that was a push for for ratings for their for the like they had commercial radio interests, you know. Like I think it was it was really trying like let's get some hosts that have some gravitas and we'll bring some new fans into the show. And I probably probably did. Or excuse me, my Tamagotchi's going off.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Didn't feed that baby. When was Corey Worthington?

SPEAKER_03 44:38

Oh party boy.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

When did that happen? I'm like, this is all a blur.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Yeah, he didn't he only went in for like a bit, right? I think I think he they kind of like parachuted him in because he was popular. Yeah, and it was it was a that might have been this season. Yeah. There are a few times where they brought people in. I think one of the most shameful um periods of the show I know where you're I know where you're about to die. Was where they put in um a woman, a trans woman named Miriam into the show who was on a um reality TV show in the U call UK, which is so fucked called There's There's Something About Miriam.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Have you listened to the podcast about that? Oh no. It's called Harsh Reality. Okay. I highly recommend it. It's um beautifully researched and interviewed, it's it's a like an investigative documentary about how unethical the whole production was. They interviewed there was a psychologist that was brought in last minute, um, and they interview him about the whole experience and just thing. Um, and then they interview a lot of like uh trans people in media about like just perceptions. It's really good. I everyone has to listen to it. Yeah, right. But um, and they they also bring up that she was in the Big Brother Australia house as well.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

Yeah, so they parachuted her in and I think it was something the weekly the week's challenge was to like figure out what's up with Miriam. Like this is gross. It's so fucked. And this is prime time reality T. Imagine the layers of people that had to sign off on this, you know? Like this is it, it it was a serious low point, and we we I remember let letting them have it, you know? Like it was such a everyone, it was so disappointing um to to profile someone in that way. I mean ultimately she yeah, it was it was cooked.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

It was no it was not it was not it was not the host of it when it was on nine.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

Was that Sonia's? Was that Sonia? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

So she followed it from nine. Oh, so did. Yeah, Sonia Kruger was the host. And Mike Goldman was involved as well. I think how strange.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Yeah, I mean he still is, right? He's still narrated.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Yeah, that was a cute little thing to bring back.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

That made it feel like I don't think he was very much of a fan of us either, probably.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

No, probably not.

SPEAKER_03 46:53

They did used to, so there were lots of particularly in the later seasons, there were housemates who were obviously fans of the show because it was so big and had um been around on our forums, and there is yeah, they would mention it on the on the live show, be like, Oh, we've heard this this rumour or whatever bam, cut the feed.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

Because were there any scandals post 10? I feel like I kind of petered out. I've heard a lot about Tully and Tim Dormer. Um, I met Benjamin Norris recently at a Survivor thing. He's got a podcast about reality TV as well, but I don't really know these.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

They're not canon for me, so I can't um second wave. Yeah, they're not PG. Yeah, I can't remember big scandals, but I did disconnect from it. The show, I think I I I I was in a different place in my life, and the show it did lose it lost its Genesequa because it had become a pipeline to getting to getting a breakfast radio show, like to be totally honest.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

And because everyone saw what happened with Fitzy, Chrissy, um who else? I don't know. I feel like didn't Bree Amar even have a short-lived TV career.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

I can't remember his name, maybe Nathan, queer guy um from WA, who is I think still hosting Breakfast Radio in WA. Um so there are there are people that made it made it work and and like deeply funny um uh Australian you know personas um that started there. Um you know it's like it's like Kylie starting out our neighbours, like there are people in the Australians artgeist who who totally their feet on this on this show.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

It was a yeah, a launch pad of sorts.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I I do I do have uh you know it's my it's my niche topic of interest, but I do still have a deep passion for what it um was at the time and what it did. And I I think we uh I think we Australians have cultural cringe, right? Um and the name of the podcast. And and I think part I I think it's really hard to articulate what it means to be Australian because we haven't reckoned with our colonial past. And I think until such time as we do that, we it's hard to it I think now impossible. Like, what is Australian culture? What is Australian?

SPEAKER_02 49:06

I'm trying to think there's been very few indigenous people on um Big Brother.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Even even if one hand, actually. Um but I think that the the show and the casting of it, certainly that first kind of whatever year, eight the eight first eight years of it did um showcase a really broad uh uh uh what's the word? Um like uh sweep of of Australians um in different stages of particularly for the time.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Yes, absolutely. Because no other show was representing like I hate to say like everyday people or whatever, but it was like they actually like even looking at these cast photos now, I'm like, God, they were average people, they weren't like super hot or anything. That kind of did change in the middle there. Absolutely, yeah. They started putting hotties in. Yeah. Which like also not mad about, but like and then you could tell who had been cast for their interesting personality and who had been cast for their huge cock. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

Absolutely, yeah. And it it did, um, I think it did some people some of the casting didn't work out. And people didn't um didn't ha were were not great TV um in there, and others that they probably didn't expect were amazing television. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Um who do you think like we talked before about like Andy being like kind of formative? Who are the some other characters that like?

SPEAKER_03 50:33

I think Regina, who won that Chrissy Crisis one season? Yeah, um, so she was like run a fish and chip shop in Tasmania or something.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

She's on I'm a Celebrity, get me out of here. She's PCR, yeah. Again and again.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

I think did she win 500 grand or millions or something? Um she's beloved by the nation. Absolutely, and and I think she she she had a she had a really broad, she had a thick accent. Um, she I don't wasn't hugely political, like was just a real salt of the earth kind of person, but I think captured uh an Australian personality that um couldn't be written, you know. Um she was she was really, really real. Same actually, and Chrissy. Chrissy was an amazing classmate. She and they were in there for three months, I think. And so you got these really tight relationships and friendships between people that um wouldn't normally have crossed paths.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Because this was a casting model for a while. I remember it on Australian Idol as well, which I was equally as obsessed with, but they would they would stress that they had been to regional places, and that's how we met Jessica Melbourne at the first time they did auditions in Darwin. Um Shannon, they were like very proud that they'd found these people. It's like we've discovered you know, uh we've left no stone unturned. We found these like kooky characters from like random places, and I I liked that. Like we don't really do that on tele anymore.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Yeah, and and I think just in life, we're a big country, and there are and and there are cities, there are regional towns, and there's the bush. And yeah, totally, and there are there are Australians in all and from all walks of life and deeply multicultural, and all of that stuff got represented in some way on the show. Like I'm as a young queer kid, I don't think I'd seen a queer person on television, or at least not in in you know, like a Dawson's Creek character or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

And then actually, and sometimes they were characters that were being played by straight actors, and that's not really the same thing, like genuinely knowing that the person you're looking at is that person, and then seeing how they interact with a group of straight people, that was hugely formative.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

Absolutely, and I think some of those early queers on the as sorry, as in early, was it yeah, Nathan? Nathan, yeah. So he was the one from Doug Way.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

He was also like, he was kind of a chunky guy. Yeah, he was gelled hair.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

Yeah, yeah. I loved him. I think I'm I'm I think he described him. He was like, I'm a storyteller, and he was hysterical, he was so funny, and got very far towards the end. Um, but I I I think I learned so much about he was teaching the other housemates about gay sex, and and there was an uncut show at the time, so it was on at like 9:30, adults only kind of thing. Fuck knows how they got that show off the line. It got carried out.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

So good.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

But they would have these really explicit conversations about about casual sex, about fucking, about uh just anything. Um, and I think I learnt a lot about about sex and about human connection from from watching these things. Wait too young, you know, about a comments, but it uh again, different time. You learn that from like one Google search these days. But back then, this was this was on TV too. Like I was watching it in my bed, like in my bunk bed with my brother above me on the on the TV in the bedroom.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

Oh my god. I think for me, like the Farmer Dave Michael thing was particularly like I don't know, I was particularly like locked in on that, yeah, because I was out in high school from like year seven pretty much um with no one else out. Yeah, so I felt like Farmer Dave in that way where it was like there's people here that are queer, but aren't out, yeah, and I'm gonna have to do all of the navigating of that for them. Yeah, totally. And it felt like I look, we still don't even know what the fuck went on there. But I think there was some, it was just I think there was some like curious flirting, which also happens to you a lot when you're out. You get kind of like, yeah, interested, curious guys kind of baiting you and shit. Yeah. And uh that's what it felt like to me. Yeah, and then to watch him get so upset about having it be outed, I don't know, it really affected me. I was like, fuck this guy.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

Like, yeah, I agree, I agree. And I I think those so um Tim Brunero was one of the classmates. And he was he was very loved, I think.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

Was he a journalist? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a I can't believe they cast a journalist.

SPEAKER_03 55:14

Like very intellectual, amazing guy. He he was a friend of the website. I think he came on the podcast a few times. He he communicated with us a lot, he was on the forums, and he he had a real problem with the show um because of the care at the time, I don't know what it's like anymore, but because of the care that they or lack of care they gave the housemates after they left, um, in terms of even just psychological support. Like, imagine this, you're in a house for for I think you were in there for a hundred days or something. Yeah, yeah. Um, you get thrown out, you're f you get you get evicted straight onto a live show where you're literally you've become a household name, everyone knows you, yeah. Um thousands of people there. Absolutely, yeah. Um and then the next morning you are on breakfast radio across the country talking about um talking about your experience when you potentially have never spoken to any media experience.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

And I'd like to know who told you that.

unknown 56:08

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 56:09

No, straight into other live shows. You can't walk down the street anymore. You yeah, he has huge, wasn't it? And he he he said that they did not do a good job at the care after Woods, um, which I think is is a and again, what a great thing to raise awareness about, I think.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

Like, because yeah, people weren't doing that. I remember being very impressed by him as well for that. And again, like yeah, I was studying journalism. I remember him on the show, I was like, oh yeah, this guy's like being critical. But like, still he showed that like you could still do it, you could still engage with it. Yeah, because there was such a big pushback on the show and the format as this like new thing. Fuck, it's we're like 25 years into reality TV and people still talking about it, like it's this new thing which drives me nuts. But um there was this pushback of people being like, that's like trash, it's unethical, it's all of this bad stuff, right? Um and I liked that he was like showing that you could be kind of like an intellectual person that's like interested in media, but like still looks at this as like you know, sure, it's like a different type of art, but it's still art? I don't know. I I really appreciated that.

SPEAKER_03 57:26

Totally. And he was a fan. He was a fan of the show before he went in, and so I think like us kind of had this expectation or uh or um what's the word? Um a hope that it would be um it would be it would it would take its it would use the fact that it had a voice um and uh and use that for the power of good and there are times that it that it that it didn't. Um I think it's about sport all the time. I think things like AFL, I'm like you have such a direct voice into you know most people's uh uh domestic situation. Yeah. Um and the opportunity that that presents to um to push the social conversation, um, I I don't think should be underestimated, and I think there are I think I think they don't do I think they don't do that. And these big moments are like think about marriage equality, think about think about the voice. Um and people will say, well, it shouldn't be political. I'm like everything is fucking politics. Exactly. And and why can't we have these big conversations? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

And I think that's what the biggest thing that disappointed me about this year's season was exactly that. They avoided they they wanted to make it show mance forward which like I understand that's a story, I understand, but it's like there's other story opportunities. There's enough love-based shows out there for people that are interested in that to watch.

SPEAKER_03 58:49

And they did a love, they did a love version of it in the repo and it flopped, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

The seventh one absolutely flopped, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

And half of those people ended up on maths anyway, like afterwards, and then you know the joy of it was and I think continues to be the fact that it is rando people who perhaps would not cross paths in a house. Um, they so the Australian one you can't smoke, um, and they would control the liquor intake. The UK one you can smoke cigarettes on, um and they do.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

They still don't change that now. They still can smoke, but not on camera. Yeah, okay, right. So there is a we got one shot of this. There is a smoking area that is still filmed, but like you can't see them in their smoke. You get like audio, right? Which I kind of love, but fuck I loved when the Pete Byrne season when they're smoking inside on the cow. Oh my god. Anyway, I think that will digress.

SPEAKER_03 59:39

The the Pete Byrne, so of Dead or Alive, You Spin Me Right Round, he was on the UK, he was on the um was on the UK season, and one of my favourite moments of any big brother is that they well that's probably number two. Um no, but the one of the challenges was just do what made you famous, and so he gets up there and does an a cappella version of you spin me right round, and just everyone else there is like sporting or a politician or whatever, and he's he's he's just got a skill, he's a singer, and it was the most incredible episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

Like you he that was that season is unbelievable. Yes, so then them taking his gorilla not even gorilla heaven, it's so good, so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:23

Like Big Brother UK was on the BBC that was like public money you could put into it, and then it like or was it BBC?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

But yeah, now it's on ITV, yeah, right, okay. Which whatever, but it's still it's still doing that. Yeah, like they've they've managed to yeah, things have changed, but they've still managed to keep, and I think it is casting, and not being afraid of scandal. They know that people watch it for the scandals, yeah, absolutely. Um, someone doesn't walk or break a rule or something. What are we doing? Yeah, like come on.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

Yeah, I think it's why like the casting, I think I think um drag race UK is one of the best English language seasons because of the casting of it. Like they really do cast a a range of people that represent all the season. Yeah, I think it's a bit of fill-up. You gotta have some in-between ones. Um no disrespect to the queen.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:16

No, no, they were amazing, but I did think I was like, I think Rue needs to have a year off, let's be honest. Let's it's Rue I have the problem with, so we're clear now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:25

Well can you imagine how many they pump out a year? Like, what is even doing? But they re it represents, I think, um a broad range of of British, or sorry, not British, of like the UK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

They get, yeah, you're right. They get they do that corners of the nation. Same with Canada, like I feel like I'm learning heaps about this currency, uh you're watching this one, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:47

Loving it. Well, you get Sammy Landry. Yes, oh my god, but you even the accents in Canada like seeing this diversity of of sounds.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

And we had a scene this week of uh two people speaking French to each other, and I was like, Yes, uh, I was like, how have we not had that until now?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:02

That was a scandal on the UK show because um uh Welsh is I think an official language in the UK, and there were two Welsh housemates who spoke Welsh to each other, um, and Big Brother told them off, and there was a big it was like you have to speak English and there was a big backlash outside of yeah, we're in our country speaking our language exactly and they they I think the housemates either they I think they had a bit of a mm about it, but it became a big thing publicly in the UK and then they changed the rules that in the season they were allowed to speak Welsh to each other and they hired a translator who who did the translating. Um and I think I understand some of it from an intellectual, you know, if you're and I are speaking a language that the other housemates can't hear. But at the on the other hand, but also hey fuck, it's it's a mul it's a bilingual country. Why shouldn't they be able to speak that language? I think the those parts of the outside influencing a a game show, I think, are really interesting things that happen when the show is being produced in real time rather than being uh uh uh filmed and then packaged up.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

Yeah, and it always reflects what's happening in the country. Like this year's Big Brother UK, um, there was a f like sort of favorite to win housemate who was a trans man um called Zila, who was an amazing housemate. A lot of people I know were watching the show just for him. Um and of course, with what's happening in that country at the moment, people politicized the show, and there was a bit of a concerted effort to vote him out, which happened. So that happened, and then there was some there was one housemate who was like very proudly right wing in the house, whatever, and like you know, great, but since then has gone on podcasts and stuff, and he's been like saying horrible things about Zula, and now he's unfortunately felt compelled to like reply, and it's just kind of like yeah, but but but like and that's shit house, but it's also what's happening in the UK at the moment, thanks to cant's like JK Rowling, and it's like that's what we need this show to be, and unfortunately, I I don't think ten are interested in any way of doing that.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:15

Have they committed to it again?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

Like, is it gonna uh I think sort of unofficially, yeah. I mean, of course, I think we can all assume they're gonna do it again. I read in a new idea article, so take that with a pinch of salt, that they are wanting to do two seasons next year, yeah, but same length as this one, so four week, two four-week seasons.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:36

Yeah, call me a purist, but I just think I'm not into that. They need time to get loopy, yeah. Yes, exactly. Exactly. That was definitely part of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:47

Where they've moved the house in Dream World, people can speak to them from one of the rides. I'm not like there were people on one of the they were like, because one of the housemates was asleep all the time. Yeah, yeah. This woman, Aviola, who was stunning, but they would be like, Wake up, Aviola, and then one one of the housemate's family members went on the ride and spoke to him in the yard, and we were all just a bit like alright, come on guys, let's Yeah, they have to be that isolation is part of it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:17

That has to be a piece of it that you are that you only have the you only have the people that you're in there with and the the weekly challenge that at the time decided whether you got good food or rations.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:29

And so people were going, losing their mind because they're eating porridge and this season they they had access to the chicken treat app. You better believe they were ordering off the app.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:40

No, no, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

They tried to do one week where it was like rations and then they all had a sook. Like there was no and there was no punishment this year. Big brother was like so soft. Yeah, right. I want to see them feel like they are yeah, yeah, you need them prison effectively.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

You need the the mean big brother. Like that would that was that was part of it as well, is that this big brother character, um, who was played by a couple of different executive producers, um, was was part of the experience too, and would say no to them about things or would um would prompt them about things.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

And there was judgments being made. That was the other part of the show that was interesting, was like, yeah, the big brother character when he had to like make calls on things. I always loved that. And it did feel fair, but then sometimes it didn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:33

Oh we we I remember having that because they obviously had different voices. Yeah, right. I can't remember who it was, but having a real passion for one of the big brother voices, and like when he came on being like, Oh, this is gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:46

Yeah, there was a quite sort of quite camp voice, I remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:49

Apparently, they used to have the the like a a summit or a conference of like the production companies that made Big Brother around the world would meet up and have conversations about um things like tasks and like what what what is working, what is making what is making good television, and what is I'm sure how to you know protect the housemates and all those things. But it was a it was on in multiple countries, um both English speaking and other and non-English speaking at the same time for a really long period of time. Wow. Um which is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:20

I wonder if they're still doing that or just watching because they they pinched a few twists and stuff from the UK this year. And I was like, sure. I was like seeing it, but also at least you're yeah, at least you're listening and trying to do some stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:35

I think one of my faves was one of the early seasons where there were two, they split the house in half.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:39

Season three. Yeah, I think that was my favorite one, or one of because that that blew my mind, the two houses.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:44

I think they figured it out very quickly because they could just yell at each other across the thing. But then one night they just moved the section of the house apart and joined everyone to know that. Were they haves and have nots or something? Some people had luxury.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

Yeah, I don't know. I think they were actually just two separate houses.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:59

Yeah, that was very cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

Yeah, I think that was the Tim Ronero season, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:04

It must have they there must have been money for it too, you know. Like it wouldn't have been cheap to run uh essentially a 24-hour production. The big live shows, I think the fact it was at Dream World uh probably enabled it to continue because they had some of that infrastructure there.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:18

But I remember the crane like lifting the the wall out.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:22

And it could go kind of yeah, I think it it um it must not someone someone hasn't said yes to it for a long period of time and put put money into it. It must have made the networks a lot of a lot of money. Those SMS, like 55 cents to send an SMS, someone was making a fuckload of cash out of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:38

I think it was interesting the choice this year to pivot to a free vote. Um I don't know. Maybe they're just trying to get people back into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:47

I think that how does how does the vote thing work when it's so it's a competition in the house though? Like it's the the the the OG version of it was they were just living their lives and maybe competing and winning challenges or whatever, but it really just was how the public perceived them based on how the show was produced essentially. Um I I can't imagine like putting together the it's so much more produced now because it has to it has to rate, right? Yeah, it has to do that. But then back then, like a conversation would come up that could totally steer a a week's worth of dialogue or a couple of days' worth of dialogue that they either didn't cover or didn't want to cover because they they started a storyline a few days before that needed to kind of find its end. I was reminded um this morning about um one of the other big scandals, which I can't remember how much we were involved in, but I'm sure a lot was Belinda Gate. Do you remember Belinda Gate? Oh my god. So this is a fucked story where basically Belinda, one of the housemates in early season, um her her her sister um was involved in a gay bashing where a guy was killed um in Queensland, and she was obviously a bit fucked about it. Um and she disclosed to some of the housemates very early in the morning um one uh what had happened and she used on the live stream? Yeah, and she used her sister's name. I think her sister was a minor at the time, or it was like, or the guy who was killed was a minor. It was a very like yeah, like uh uh illegal, essentially. Um and uh they had to they had they shut down the the live stream for a number of hours. The the the official Big Brother website had a a forum for the first few years that got shut down and never came back because they couldn't stay on top of the Which No one would have been on that anyway. They're all over with us, yeah. Um and it's part yeah, and and they had to kind of address it. I think I sister ended up going to jail for like six or seven years after uh after the kind of case was closed. But this um you you had no they had no control really over what you can and can't can and can't talk about in there. I'm sure they gave them rules, like you can't talk about this, you can't talk about that. But actually what the conversation comes up if you're a bit boozed, they they they didn't give them alcohol and then did all of a sudden like I wouldn't last a second in the I auditioned once.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:08

Did you yeah um oh my god, they would have done two-second background check and be like absolutely not.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:14

It was I didn't get very far, but it was um they it started with like big group auditions um at the convention centre in WA, and then they would play maybe like theatre sporty type things, and there were heaps of people with clipboards kind of watching you. You had a number, like a marathon, and then not that I've driven, I mean by driven, ran in a marathon, um, and then they would cut some people to just like come around and say thank you, no thanks, thank you, no thanks. And then I definitely got like a few in two thank yous, and then yeah, and then just a I know I remember being in a big circle, playing that.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:45

And then someone and then a representative from three. Yeah, my god. I mean, we know who you are.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:50

Yeah, um, but it was it was an interesting um like they really just did it's like the Australian idol model. They were like, everyone come and we'll we'll find interesting people.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:00

What was the outcome of Belinda Gate? Did she get removed or something?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:04

She didn't, no, and I think they just had to shut down the conversation. I think that I think they had a very legalese way to talk about it. Um but she Yeah, it was like it was something that happened in the house that they weren't able to cover for for legal reasons. Um and like how could you have expected that, you know? There was also another season where one of the housemates had had a stillbirth um at some point prior to. Um and uh then they did a fucking challenge where they brought those fake plastic babies in.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:40

They used to do that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:42

And obviously it fucked her up and she was very triggered by the situation. And then the producer came out and were like, she told us she was over it, but the I looked this up in the morning, the exec producer did come out after it and say we we could have made a better decision there. That's good. Um, yeah. What is that? Like, can you that the number of people again who must have had to sign off on that to go?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:06

Oh, and that's what you're telling me they would know and hope that there would be exactly some like come on now.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:13

Well they can't they said we wanted her to, you know, talk about the situation and you know it'd be a learning experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:17

Like, get fucked. Yeah. That's not good enough. No, no, no. No, you're right. And and that's why it was so hard to hear through your pod and everything about how much they like they there was this tension between like wanting the fans included and involved and stuff, but like yeah, uh when they were being called out for stuff, they would kind of turn their back at times. Yeah, I think it would have been a really tough thing for you to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:47

I think we were I remember feeling like we You were like a media watch. Yeah, yeah or like I don't know, you were like some sort of ethical watchdog. I remember feeling that it I remember feeling like they thought we hated it and we were doing it to tear it down. But it really No And there were times where I'm sure we did for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um but it was because of a deep love of this thing and and being a very online queer teen in uh in Perth, very isolating place, not much of a community out there. I found some community online in fandom, which I'm sure is a lot of people's experience with TV, especially reality TV. Um and you got it you I yeah, I I it had a big part in my upbringing, I guess. In seeing the world because I didn't I didn't see people like that in my everyday um and I I'm grateful for it for that because I think I saw the world that I wouldn't have seen in my little humble suburban yeah you know Perth bedroom, yeah, sharing like teenager like being so yeah, it was it was a wild time. Oh score.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:01

Oh my gosh, GGH, thank you so much for indulging me. My pleasure. I can talk about this as well. I know I'm like I I actually have many more questions. Maybe we'll get you back on, we'll do part two or something. Yeah, but my my last question for you is you talk about your love for Gretel. Will you be touching down on the Traders Australia 2026?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:24

I don't what do you I don't know what are you talking about? Gretel is the host. Oh wow, okay. Yeah, stunning. I'm glad she's back.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:29

Have you not seen the cast? No, not at all. Get ready to have your mind. So ten ten are leaning into nostalgia.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:37

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:38

Um, let me just get it up because I don't want to miss anyone.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:42

I look, I have a deep passion for Gretel. Um spoke to her on the phone once. She was not impressed with us either. A friend of mine got one. Yeah, so a friend of mine won.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

Oh my god, we buried the leaf.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:52

A friend of mine won uh a kind of interview with her as like a kid journo thing, teen journo, and interviewed her and then let slip at the end. Oh, my friend is like of behind big brother. Um and they called um and I spoke to her very briefly on the phone. Um, and she was a bit like, hmm, yes, nice to nice to first to meet you. Um, and that was kind of that was kind of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:16

Oh my god. So yeah, she would have been like, um, so this is the cast.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:20

Amazing author as well. Shout out to Gretel's books. She writes kids' books.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:23

They're great books, amazing. Um, this is the cast of The Traitors Australia season three. It's already been filmed. Oh my god, Dicko, wow and Passama. So they're leaning into Bin and Soldier. We've got Queen Claw and Reese Nicholson.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:39

Yeah, right. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:42

I heard there apparently were rumors they wanted Tim Dormer, but uh, I don't know if she's uh doing well. Um Chrissy and Gamble from uh Housewives. Yes, a bunch of survivor people.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:58

Yep, yep. Um who's Lawson?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

I remember Lawson is from Maiden Bondi.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:02

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:03

Manaki is from Aussie Shaw, who we love. Um great cars. Like, I'm so excited about it. People were really like, oh, you've done the reality TV like scrapbin approach, but hey. Great, they made great TV back then. Alan from Master Chef. Yeah. It's a real it's a real mixed bag. And Gretel as host. Gretel is the host, yeah, stunning. And looking stunned, they've got her in like a real witchy great, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:30

Um so yeah, stoked for that. Okay, uh look, I'll be back. Oh my god, you may be interested to watch that. Yeah, I I I love her. I think that she did an incredible job. I'd love to um I'd love to have a conversation with her about what that time was. I'm sure she's spoken about it. The stories that she must have, hey? This is the other thing, like the story the things that I remember. We didn't even talk about Saxon. Oh yes. Oh my god, oh my god, yes, yeah. Even the Free the Refugees thing with Merlin, like that was so progressive at the time and the way that she handled a live protest on television. Like, who what other Australian um uh host, anything media personality has had to deal with a situation like that?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:11

Sonia Kruger would never have like I don't even know what she's doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:16

They would have just shut it down, like they would have just shut the the thing down.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:19

She would have got out a tiny gun and just pointed it at Merlin. The cameras would have cut out.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:25

Yeah, yeah. No, Sonia can get in the bin.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:27

Yeah, big time. What a great place to end the pot. Sonia can get in the bin.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:31

We were quite scandalized by her, I remember. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:34

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me. Thank you so much for coming. This has been too much fun. It's been a joy. See you soon, baby. See you soon.